Roleplaying decreased?

[Donari Tyndale]

In my opinion, the decrease of roleplay is mainly due to a lack of encouragement of new players to roleplay. Most new players are of the casual sort, they google MMORPG and find PlaneShift. Then, they do what they know from MMORPGs, gaining money, grinding and levelling. With guildhouses for sale, all guilds are only set upon acquiring one. Smelters want to smelt platinum. Fighters want to grow stronger. Though they can't do anything of these without money, this is why they need money. And not only little amount, but huge sums, as training is not free. Furthermore, if they eventually got the money, they need to train. But how do they train? They spend hours and hours doing the same action all over again. No time for roleplay, as many people have a limited amount of time available. No time for those little roleplays, they waste precious time. Large roleplays can be forgotten, as they are even more time consuming. And if a large scale roleplay happens, it is always the same players. GM Events don't count, as they attract some people like moths are attracted by the light.

I enjoyed roleplaying a merchant, and I did far better than many miners, as resources like gold were rare. People didn't have so much money to spend, and for me, roleplay was rewarding. Now, with platinum in game and stat based prices, I don't feel that roleplay brings me any further in merchandising. Of course, many people would be glad to roleplay with a trader, but it is only a handful, always the same. In my eyes, PlaneShift needs more tiny impulses for roleplay, as those make players interested in roleplay. Currently, PlaneShift is an egalitarian society, only counting the players. In an egalitarian society, were everyone can achieve the same things, they mostly do them on their own. Interdependance is needed, especially with risk and reward situations. If players can make their characters take a risk in order to achieve things, they are often willing to do it. But currently, there is nothing to reach with risks. A plot to become the leader of Hydlaa's official Tanning Guild for example would be a risk. In an egalitarian society, most are not interested in doing anything, as they can do things on their own. What is needed is a stimulating system that allows players to roleplay whatever they like. Currently, no player character will ever become vigesimi for example. A player run government might be totally chaotic, but it would at least give players some impulses to roleplay. The new players want exactly that, to become famous, strong, rich. If these aims require roleplay, they will learn roleplay. They adapt. However, becoming rich and powerful at the moment requires two things, money and training. New players tend to crowd with themselves, they feel appaled by the hardcore roleplayers. If you got a lot of people wanting to achieve exactly the same, they will eventually form an association.

I am positive that if these basic aims of a new player require roleplay, they will eventually roleplay. If mining was restricted, players would need to roleplay in order to get a license. Not with quests, as these are done alone most of the time, but through a player character that acts as an overseer of the mine, for example.

[Velh Krome]

A bit short on time at the moment, so only a short reply:

The increased area while having the same amount of players at a time surely did a part of the trick to have less dense "atmosphere", random roleplays that is. Also, more quests probably may keep some players busy - nothing wrong with neither of both, nice and all, but I dont see why is it emphasizing roleplay. In fact I dont really see wheres the motivation to roleplay in PS at all, actually its only the players to motion a newbie roleplay or not (yes, worded provokingly and exaggeratedly, right as some of the following).
Donari, you picture a pretty interesting Planeshift there. Your approach on motivating players to go for roleplaying sounds intruiging, but still would need a serious thought on it. Currently players find rat holes (exploits) to promote in what is apparently worth it: levelling or gaining items/trias. In a PS where positions like even the the vig's one could be a chance, there always would be players to cheat too. And I probably would prefer a fully (over-)maxed mute ooc-char, over a comparable player playing the vig.
But yes yes, I can already hear you xD.. with instances to control and assuming a bugfree version, it would be much better, although there seem to have to be other players to influence/control your roleplay, thus if you are "allowed" to reach your goal (say to become vig: or other positions of limited availability) - keyword favorism.
Maybe you could compare the problems I see there with buying guildhouses nowadays: Currently there are/were only few houses available and only to be bought by "guilds". There we go.. at the moment I know of one house not (and prolly never really) owned by a "guild", and others I am not sure if they roleplay validly at all. At the moment all you need to do to buy a house which apparently grants you fame and honor, is to.. take tedious oocish actions (piling up trias). With "one" free vigesimi position in your example, it would be a tough job for the "overseers" (devs, GMs? Scripted?) to decide who to give that position if two decently and fittingly roleplaying players claim.

Nonetheless, your idea at least would give some "real" motivation to roleplay, and would make Planeshift something extraordinary special. And however, miners needing a "license" for their "dig" shortie will work at all sounds funny and intruiging the same time. I hope the devs may ponder about some similar solution.

[Donari Tyndale]

Bugs would be a slight problem. How can one cheat in roleplay? Not at all. The positions would be balanced, by no limitations. If you are a bad vigesimi, and if you mistreat everyone, you can be sure of having a dagger in your heart one day. Good old Fertedian Dalko. Of course there could still be a powerlevelled person fighting his way through the guards, but I hope that eventually you'll need to master roleplay before you can master a skill. The system would eventually find a balance, and I am positive that this balance will be enjoyed by anyone. If there is no counterforce against something, one will devellop. You only need to make such a devellopment possible.

[Mythryndel]

Well... here is my $0.02 worth:

1. I am new to PS. I started a week or so before .4. I am into RP, but it is very difficult to always stay in-character when trying to learn the game.

2. The introduction system is um... how to say this delicately... obnoxious.
   a. I have had to introduce myself to the same person multiple times and still show as unknown to them.
   b. I also get no indication right now that /introduce is doing anything.
   c. I get annoyed that I cannot see who anyone is. I get random messages that say "Someone says:".
   d. Even the people I talk with regularly or are in my guild show up as "[unknown]" when I click on them to trade.
   e. I understand what the DEVs are trying to do, but this is not working well and may need to be removed and revisited later.

3. I know that there is a LOT of mining going on right now. For me, since critters have been impervious so frequently that is the only way for me to make trias to train my skills. However, I have stayed in-character talking to other players while resting between mining expeditions and enjoyed myself quite throughly.

For the record, I find this game VERY enjoyable and I think that the DEVS, in general, have done a wonderful job. I just hadn't seen a good place to weigh in on the introduction issue before this.

[Dajoji]

It all comes to how the players spend their time in game. It's not the game's fault if the players only want to do quests, or mine, or train. Like Illysia said, if you want to RP, then RP "and they will come".

If RP is affected by the introduction system then this very system has put in evidence that the average player doesn't know how to RP well with only IC information. It's the players' fault really, not the game's. RP is about actions and reactions. One character says or does something, the others react to that and the process continues. If a player's name tag is the only thing other players can react to, then they are flawed in their approach. I imagined that the lack of a name tag that, in reality shouldn't even be there, would promote more description reading. Descriptions are unique (unless left untouched after character creation) and players who knew each other before 4.0 are likely to have read each others' descriptions so recognizing each other shouldn't be that hard. What's happening is people are not using the information that IC makes more sense to have. Until characters are fully customizable, if you want to recognize someone you should check their description. You want to be recognized? Personalize your description and avoid writing 10 pages (or add a quick description before that).

Players need to adapt to the new system and see it as an opportunity to improve their RP. Despite the flaws it may have right now, it makes sense to have it and it will be tweaked along the way.

[Velh Krome]

Sorry, but your comparisons flaw quite a bit:

introduction system then this very system has put in evidence that the average player doesn't know how to RP well with only IC information

This has been discussed often meanwhile: If all the introduction system provides can be taken IC information, then my chars would be blind and deaf. Support is meant to be provided by descriptions: read below though.

the lack of a name tag that, in reality shouldn't even be there, would promote more description reading

In reality you have the face of a person, the sort fo unique sound of a voice, heck even scents, to recognize, in PS you have a Someone and a Someone. Meanwhile I added "me" and "my" to my chatbubbles-config for I at least have a chance to keep track (to be busy catching bubbles on the screen once more makes it hard to read all descriptions of every bypasser).
Next point: descriptions. You seriously try to tell me you are reading descriptions of all 8 customers in Kadas when entering, then always turning to check description whos leaving, or of a new one entering .. I tried that in the beginning, its tiring, takes away huge amounts of time spent for roleplaying, distracts - unrealistic, no fun.

f a player's name tag is the only thing other players can react to, then they are flawed in their approach.

Again two points: You may have forgotten that not all of us are native english/american. Not everyone knows/is capable of using fancy and picturous ic-speech ingame for being recognized at once. Second point, though talked to death, if I am meant to be reading descriptions to keep aware who is the one Someone and who is the other Someone, then this would eat up all my time ingame - I would bet most of the (active) players will agree on that. After all, almost all active players say that system still flaws greatly - all of them poor roleplayers?

Until characters are fully customizable,

Why coming with something prolly very far in the future, when you can add these custom nametags? Let me add "Ragged Ylian" and "Noble dwarf" and gone the struggle while listening to two Someones like a deaf, dumb and blind elf;) Adding custom names to the buddylist was apparently easy - why not for ingame tags?

[Donari Tyndale]

Dajoji, your first statement is partly true. The roleplayers will always roleplay when they like, but it is about getting the new players to roleplay as well. And that is mostly the task of the game.

[Zan]

Roleplaying will come back.

As for the introduction system, let me say I've long been a proponent of it and really hoped it'd work ... but now I have to admit that even I think it's only annoying people at the moment. You can easily circumvent it and all it does is confuse the living daylight out of you whenever you're talking in an area with more than one 'stranger'. I also think it's one of the major reasons roleplaying is so rare these days. You simply can't have a decent conversation without OOC infererences to clear up confusion.

[Mythryndel]

You can give people all the tools in the world to RP, but if they don't want to RP they won't. I personally don't feel that it is time well spent trying to create game mechanics that FORCE people to RP. If there are enough players out there doing RP, then new players will catch on and fall-in-line so to speak. I do my best to be courteous and not use the "main" tab for OOC chat or help requests.

I personally find that i can progress, by myself, and it is boring and tedious. I have gotten involved with a guild and had several conversation, in-character, with other players and it has made the game much more enjoyable. This didn't require any special DEV time or any game mechanics to force me to RP.

I read something above about reading character descriptions. This is HIGHLY unrealistic. Imagine everyone walking into the grocery store handing the guy at the front a piece of paper with their life story on it. Can you imagine the lines backing up just to get in the store? Even if i did read the entire background of a person, I STILL CANNOT TELL WHO IS TALKING TO ME as it only says "Someone says:" When introductions were first introduced (no pun intended) it worked well enough and people went around introducing themselves to everyone. Now i don't seem to be able to introduce myself to anyone or vice versa.

[Donari Tyndale]

Mythryndel, it is not about forcing anyone to roleplay. My ideas for example are meant to give people impulses that makes them want to roleplay, so roleplay will be enjoyable for everyone.

[Velh Krome]

Basically Donari's idea appears to me to be some kind of analogon to "maxing a char level-wise", with exception for "levelling rp-wisely" would bring much more changes to an originally poor miner who became the boss of a trading company, compared to a club-wielder who became a hero - both considering the influence on the game you will/could have.
You wouldnt be forced to roleplay, like you arent forced to PL at the moment - instead it would offer a chance to reach certain "real" goals with your roleplay.

[Mythryndel]

As long as the opportunity exists to play the game without forced RP interaction, then i think the game will survive long-term. There are times when I just want to get to a certain level and kill things. There are other times when i really enjoy the player interactions and could just sit and "chat" all night. If there were bonuses offered for RP, I could be very agreeable to that.

RP by its very nature requires other players to be willing/able/online to interact with. This is sometimes problematic especially with the server downtime experienced recently and the 255 player max (read about it in the bug tracker).

Right now, the game mechanics favor non-RP activities in order to advance your character. No matter how you try to RP with an Ulbernaut... (s)he is going to kill you just as dead unless you build your character up.

[Under the moon]

* Under the moon chuckles and pats Donari on the head.

Always good to have a fall guy.

Ok folks, as I have said before, once the intro system is bug free and includes "This is <name of person you know>" it will be the perfect introduction system. What you are asking for is an -Recognition- system, which is completely different than an intro system. A good recognition system will compliment the intro system perfectly. Just have to wait for someone to code it.

[Mythryndel]

I think that there is an assumption in players (not necessarily DEVs) minds that remembering an introduction and having their name show up as their name instead of "Someone" in the logs forever after that is the same thing. If this really is two separate things in PS, perhaps we need to K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid).

I understand the difference between introduction and recognition, but having to re-introduce multiple times is like assuming everyone has Alzheimer's.

[Velh Krome]

Perhaps to have had a "recognition"-system before that introduction one wouldnt have been a bad idea then..