Ethics, RP, and Npcs

[Velh Krome]

what about faction points.... hm, I will post again the questions I already posted in my last post...

I wonder how will you handle the impact of acting in events on characters? With faction points? Will there be a way to gain insight into the own char's "reputation" (if not handled by faction points)?
I am wondering, because:
If its by faction points, wouldnt already gathered faction points be taken into consideration too?

I may add one to perhaps make it more clear:
Does all this thread have anything to do with faction points?

[Prolix]

As far as I am concerned any game content that leads to true death (character deletion) would be an abuse unless it was clearly explained in context by the relevant npcs repeatedly, at each step, on the way, and ultimately avoidable before the last step. It is all very well to have your laws, regarding burial wells, for instance, with true death penalties but to me it would be better if they were banishment from the land of the living instead. This could be accomplished, for instance, by some powerful Dark Way magic which caused the recipient to suffer rapid degeneration upon exposure to the Crystal light. Such a person could very well spend all their time in the Death Realm, save for occasional brief "vacations," filled with suffering, and "day passes" during eclipses. Lesser penalties could be effected by sending them out the Bronze Doors and not allowing them to return.

I do not like enforced character deletion for breaking in context laws and think it should be only for out of context game server considerations. If you have such in character penalties then I ought to be able to get, say, ten other people together to make a complaint against someone and have them tried for a crime leading to such a penalty resulting in their deletion if convicted. This would be completely acceptable as people are falsely accused all the time in real life. Another factor is that in implementing such a penalty even without player interaction you run the rather large risk of deleting characters by bug and not intention or even of deleting accounts. I believe this risk is too high despite any amount of warnings you may make on the forums or even in game.

[Under the moon]

Prolix... honestly... do you think that we would have any path that could lead to True Death without many warnings, ways to turn back, and protection from bugs? Have some faith. Some of the best writers around are on the case.

[Nikodemus]

Zwenze, those people can still roleplay 'good' characters outwardly. But internally, their souls now have a black spot on them,

lol for consistency - you can be good but you are bad. Players and NPCs, no people from IC PoV.

It is sometimes unbearable to stay apart and watch.

And yay for the new discussion direction, there is no reason to be worried about it, unlike about what i wrote about before.
I can clearly say the game is going fully forward with the first.

[Prolix]

Redemption, Prolix?

* Under the moon had a hand in writing some of what you speak of.

I think not.

Do try to be consistent.....

[Under the moon]

I said ways to turn back, not redemption. Take the example of the diving board. You can climb the ladder and walk out to the edge, or turn back at any time. That is turning back. Once you jump off, however, you are going to get wet. No turning back, no redemption. No consistency conflict.

Nikodemus, I did not understand your post.

[Rizin]

I may add one to perhaps make it more clear:
Does all this thread have anything to do with faction points?

Faction points are just one method of achieving our goals, which happened to be brought into the thread. The point of this thread was to remind people to act in character and we seem to have drifted a bit.

[Nikodemus]

UtM, from the quote of yourself the conclussion is that, interaction between players is completly irrespective, to what intraction is betwen player and NPCs, events RP and similiar. This confirms that noone significant cares about consistency in this area. In fact, from IC PoV we should start describing NPCs exactly as NPCs and not as people. That because player - player and player - npcs are different,  irrespective worlds.

[Kerol]

You forget that GMs can see which quests players finished and what faction standing they have. There's nothing stopping us from using this info to determine how to treat players in events . Not only that, we could use quest items/info as parts in events.
And the other way round, of course: quests could use items/info given in events.

And another thing: Imagine you play some sort of paladin, do a quest that gives you access to a dark mage laboratory but leaves a "mark on your soul" - priests or other similarly aligned characters would be able to see it and deny you access to a holy area. The only difference between an NPC (/GMs) and players right now is that only NPCs and GMs can "see the mark", players cannot.
However, that doesn't mean that they can't find out - just see if the other can access an area or not.

You can make quests a trial of courage and incorporate them into your guild application. You can "live" (RP) in certain areas, amongst characters with the same mindset. I can imagine that's also a way to find fitting recruits for specific guilds.
To directly incorporate the faction/quest info into RP only a spell would be required for players to "see" - opening up many more ways to juggle with.
When you're a bit creative you will find ways to play with what's there.

[Nikodemus]

Ok, I would like that, then why UtM said otherwise?

[Under the moon]

I think you misunderstand my meaning.

[Nikodemus]

Indeed, i could, I did. 
And again, the progress this thread shows is really good for gameplay.
But the promised effects are worrying, because the way how they are accomplished, may prove to be outside of common sense. This thread discussion is conducted in the spirit of: "you have alts, so use them, because you may do something you wouldn't by acciden't and you don't want a char you care about to be tainted"
But there is that looser like me who doesn't have alts to test because he has no time, energy to roleplay on the same level with more than one character. Although my character isn't thinking in the slightest to go join Blackflame and play in killing people for joy, helping them in that or performing rituals, I'm worried that too harsh Yliakum law may made me an outlaw, because i walk around, suddently stumble a burial well and some invisible spell will notice all guards and every NPC that i broke the law.
Although i could RP that, it is not my dream, especially that PS has no support for outlaws and i don't want everybody to pounce on me, like proved in here

I also don't want my cheracter be doomed for banishment or whatelse, because NPCs are made poory or narrowly, because the dev team has no time to develop it good enough, because it is too small and the time rushes. Even if they could do it really, really well if given enough time.
Features introduced in this thread are so critical that if made in a haste they can break a character if not in the next week, then maybe next month, or next year, sooner or later it will be over. And not because of the fault of the player, but by accident. Of course in reality we have convicts who were proved innocent after ther death in prison, but do we wat this in PS and maybe not for such a marginal scale? Are we still playing for fun?

I think there is not enough discussions of this type lately, maybe it deserves a new topic, but i don't want devs not be able to sleep overnights, because players are flooding them with questions and accusations.

[Zwenze]

...
 The only difference between an NPC (/GMs) and players right now is that only NPCs and GMs can "see the mark", players cannot.
However, that doesn't mean that they can't find out - just see if the other can access an area or not.

Hmm, there is this one spell [name omited to avoid spoilers as much as possible] that allows me to read the factions of other players. Is this a bug or can I see such dark spots ic'ly when i have the right spell?

[Caarrie]

...
 The only difference between an NPC (/GMs) and players right now is that only NPCs and GMs can "see the mark", players cannot.
However, that doesn't mean that they can't find out - just see if the other can access an area or not.

Hmm, there is this one spell [name omited to avoid spoilers as much as possible] that allows me to read the factions of other players. Is this a bug or can I see such dark spots ic'ly when i have the right spell?

then you must be talking about a bug

[Zwenze]

Ok, I will avoid using this spell in roleplays then unless its clarified what I am supposed to see and what not.