Author Topic: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]  (Read 15455 times)

Zan

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2008, 05:25:56 pm »
Without reading anything but the first post ... two things to consider.

Did you guys know that there have been bugs reported that unlocked guildhouse doors automatically? Criminals be careful about committing crimes without OOC approval. The  game does not support stealing at the moment, in fact it tries to prevent any possibility of doing so, so your actions can be seen as grieving.

Secondly, a huge bust like this always draws attention and some of you should get caught. If you all get away with it, it's bordering very closely to godmodding from a roleplaying perspective.

Keep in mind, this is a game. A game should be fun for everyone involved ... that guideline comes before the one that tells you to stay in-character.  ;)

Personally I think you all went overboard and clearly didn't do this to make a point. You reacted like true outlaws/thieves. Saw an oppertunity and went for it. The making a point is a nice excuse afterwards. You guys would have made a point by stealing just a few things and throwing everything else upside down. Unless you plan on giving the Elemental Light a chance to recover most of their goods .. then I'm wrong here. :P
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Prolix

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2008, 05:37:43 pm »
Just a note here. The type of magic I referred to is more properly called scrying, not scribing. It is extremely common in magic based fantasy literature and table top rpg's. It is likely to be too difficult to implement properly in a computer game so you probably won't see an "Eyes of Laanx" glyph, for example, in the game. That said one should take particular note of this description of blue way:
Quote from: http://www.planeshift.it/guide/en/guide-magic.html#guide-magic-ways-blue
Equally inestimable are the divination spells that can provide very useful information on the past, present and future.
and plan your actions accordingly. It is theoretically possible within the settings and if you can role play unimplemented thieving actions in the game -- say picking pockets -- you should also be able to role play unimplemented magic actions. Although my example is not perfect as picking pockets is known to be in the plan and such a spell is less certain. Other ways to get the information magically would be to kidnap minor thieves and interrogate them under a truth type spell.

I am mentioning all this, as much as anything else, because it should not be news to thief organizations and they should consider whatever precautions will be necessary when plotting their capers. Magic changes everything and if you do not consider it you will be less effective.

Izzabella

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2008, 05:55:45 pm »
Yes Zan your right, we godmodded because they left it unlocked and unattended. and no I've been told that EL has been complaining about their noobs leaving it unlocked ;P Its not my fault that no one else was in east hydlaa at the time eaither.

SovHed

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2008, 06:04:23 pm »
Did you guys know that there have been bugs reported that unlocked guildhouse doors automatically? Criminals be careful about committing crimes without OOC approval. The  game does not support stealing at the moment, in fact it tries to prevent any possibility of doing so, so your actions can be seen as grieving.

Secondly, a huge bust like this always draws attention and some of you should get caught. If you all get away with it, it's bordering very closely to godmodding from a roleplaying perspective.

Keep in mind, this is a game. A game should be fun for everyone involved ... that guideline comes before the one that tells you to stay in-character.  ;)

Personally I think you all went overboard and clearly didn't do this to make a point. You reacted like true outlaws/thieves. Saw an oppertunity and went for it. The making a point is a nice excuse afterwards. You guys would have made a point by stealing just a few things and throwing everything else upside down. Unless you plan on giving the Elemental Light a chance to recover most of their goods .. then I'm wrong here. :P

Quite a large mis-assumption there..
Firstly:
It was not a bug, it was left unlocked, unluckily for them a keyholder wasn't very reliable.

Secondly:
It may draw attention however if theres no one there except the owners who return hours later, its quite unlikely anyone is caught.. applies to RL as well. UNless theres CCTV which im pretty sure there isn't.

Thirdly:
It was highly fun for everyone involved, those who got robbed were not involved as they weren't there, which was actually not our fault as it would be rather foolish to stick about till they did arrive....

Fourthly:

Why steal 1 sword and call it a victory when you can steal the whole hall and call it victory. Ok they lost everything in there, I don't see a thief in RL say.. Ohh well I could steal this TV AND this PC but that wouldnt be fair so ill only take the monitor.. :P I don't at least..

Prolix: as for that magic. It seems that with that nothing could possibly ever be hidden so if indeed that spell was implemented all actions against the law in game would be impossible to commit without death ensuing. hence why I think that can be considered incorrect.

Thanks for listening  :)
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Prolix

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2008, 06:51:12 pm »
Just as in the world of espionage there is counter-espionage tactics, in a world of magic there is counter-magic. If you have no mages in your ranks, or on hire, then indeed you have no protection from mages.

Of course I have made no mention as to the mechanics of the spells as there is much diversity in literature and games. I have merely mentioned the possibility in the broadest most general terms. It is not for me to specify how the setting envisions these abilities though clearly they have contemplated them. I will say that traditionally such abilities have ranges from obscure hard to read portents to crystal clear tv like images and counter measures have ranged from non-existent, just have to know what you are looking for, to extremely effective, have to be more powerful mage to penetrate. Also there is the further consideration as to what toll, physical and mental, the magic takes on the practitioner, from wake up in the morning with a slight headache to three weeks bed rest needed per casting or in some cases even death. And then there are the possible dangers of the magic including possible detection of the scrying attempt resulting in a long distance wizards duel through the magical connection.

The last thing I'll say in this post is that you concluding it cannot happen is just as much god modding as my saying it might be possible, more so because you make definitive claims and mine are conditional. I suggest you ask for clarification from the dev team as you are intimately concerned with cloaking your actions.

Izzabella

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2008, 06:56:55 pm »
The outlaws have mages. I may not be one myself but we do have some, in high ranks even.

how about you Sov? any of your guys know magic? ;)

Earl_Listbard

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2008, 07:06:36 pm »
The outlaws have mages. I may not be one myself but we do have some, in high ranks even.

how about you Sov? any of your guys know magic? ;)

Thats classified.

SovHed

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2008, 07:20:17 pm »
I'd say we have a fair few.. I myself am rather skilled..
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 07:23:23 pm by SovHed »
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Sen

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2008, 08:44:02 pm »
Hmm... I usually don't like people don't read the whole thread and comment but Im going to do just this...

This is indeed a nice contrast to boredom in ps. But to be honest I think such a thing should be agreed before in ooc manner in general at least. Apart from I wonder how you carry all the things out of the house of a well known guild without being seen ic imho it would be better to speak with the victims to not scare them off oocly - because the game should be fun for _all_ players.

Apart from that... *cough* I hope not more start to use this forum as place for commercial advertizing ;)

Sen
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Zan

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2008, 08:51:43 pm »
Izzy, the stealing part isn't godmodding .. the "assuming you aren't noticed, carrying a pile of stolen goods through a busy city and then selling those goods" part is what I call godmodding. :D I also have a very hard time believing that not a single player passed through east hydlaa during that whole time you guys were there. Even if it's true, NPCs are also witnesses as pointed out by others before me.


Sov, I didn't assume a bug was involved here. I merely asked a question to make you all think about the possibility. If you already had before I asked the question, good for you!

Secondly, even if there is nobody there: Picking up and moving large quantities of goods makes a lot of noise. A lot of noise raises suspicion. Shady looking people walking around with a ton of goods raise suspicion .. especially in medieval times. Shady looking people selling loads of equipment raise a lot of suspicion. Large stashes of equipment, with specific crafter marks on them can be tracked. Honest or wimpy NPC merchants will tell on you when the guards ask questions. I'm willing to bet that most characters involved are known to hang out a lot on the 'wrong side of town'. All this helps lead to the almost-fact that you aren't just going to get away with it.

Thirdly, when things from someone are being taken, that someone is involved. It doesn't matter if they were online at that time or not. They're involved.

Fourthly, thank you for making my point! You did it to steal, not to teach someone a lesson.

It saddens me that you fail to see my point but maybe that's my fault so I'll say it very simple.

Keep things fun, even when you're evil! If you know for certain that people will be pissed, then don't do what you're about to do.
Zan Drithor, Member of the Vaalnor Council
Tyrnal Relhorn, Captain of the Vaalguard
Thromdir Shoake, Merchant
Giorn Kleaver, Miner.

Grayne Dholm, Follower of Dakkru

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2008, 09:09:14 pm »
Considering the current situation, why not offering the EL a fair chance, by maybe offering any fictive evidence you burglar guys are meant to have dropped there accidentally?
Could be a fair gesture, and a chance for some interesting plot to come, hm?;)

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2008, 09:19:26 pm »
I very much agree to Zan here (now read all posts ;) )

Now to the minor points: people watching your backs was a good point, but how did you forward the information about someone coming? Shouting? Suddenly start to run?
Furthermore, the door being unlocked doesn't mean nobody is supposed to be in the guildhouse icly (and of course not for being welcome to do what you want ooc!)... there are more points in that direction, but well... to sum up this whole action can hardly be taken as icly without having you spoken to at least the victims before about some circumstances.

I try to not say more because I was one who complained about too little bad characters in ps. But I think this is not the best example, sorry to some of people involved and whom I like and respect very much.

Sen

*edit* To add at least one point _for_ the robbers: That the door was unlocked could be a point for you - not to do as you wish but when speaking to EL ;)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 09:28:54 pm by Sen »
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Caarrie

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2008, 09:26:13 pm »
Just one more example of a reason why you discuss things like this ooc before you do them ic, Lets say EL Tamers have decided that they really hate the outlaws and the theives that robbed them, they had ic determined that they did the dead, they found a Bounty Hunter to go and kill off the people that robbed them. This being that it was not agreed upon ooc means that EL wants all chars involved in this to face perma death and not to play anymore. There is no way anyone can force something like this on anyone else without the ooc agreement made in advance. I wish that people would plan rps like this ooc first and make sure all involved know what is going on and everyone agrees to how it should be done, there would not be a thread this long if all of this was done before hand, also EL would not have had to involve the gms in the matter or anyone outside these guilds.

SovHed

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2008, 10:10:59 pm »
Hmm... I usually don't like people don't read the whole thread and comment but Im going to do just this...

This is indeed a nice contrast to boredom in ps. But to be honest I think such a thing should be agreed before in ooc manner in general at least. Apart from I wonder how you carry all the things out of the house of a well known guild without being seen ic imho it would be better to speak with the victims to not scare them off oocly - because the game should be fun for _all_ players.

Apart from that... *cough* I hope not more start to use this forum as place for commercial advertizing ;)

Sen

Ok so saying that we should plan it first... So we are meant to say to EL. "Hi, we'd like to rob your guildhall for everything you have, when would be a good time to do it, when you have lots of guards around to make it nice and fair?"

Forgive me if you think i'm stupid... but I think thats pretty stupid :p

People don't even agree to be robbed for 1 circle. How in the hell are thieves meant to survive if we can't do somthing on the spurr of the moment without OOCly asking. in advance.... Thats just stupid. Ok if we killed someone yeah we'd probably arrange that with the person.

Also permadeath is not even an option so please no talk on that.

As far as we are concerned the EL still have no evidence against us at all and until they have that I'd appreciate them not chasing us OOCly or insulting/referencing our RL & OOC lives in game.

Thank you

[PS: Sorry if my sig offends you. If it is against the rules then you are welcome to ask me to change it, I will do. The mirror is hosted by my company, which is part of me, and thus I think it is related to myself. Not IC of course :p]
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 10:12:51 pm by SovHed »
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Izzabella

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2008, 10:11:36 pm »
first off there was NO ONE in the sector NO ONE Saw us.. we looked around.. not our fault thats not god modding that no one was there.

they left it unlocked. their fault we did IC what we would do IC

And no Caarie you other players can't make us perma dead for a RP.
epically with NO EVIDENCE!

But now I am being chased OOC'ly and challenged by EL members..yeah really smooth. Not to mention the OOC harassment I am not reciveing. I was told "peh! whatever - you should have grown up by now:P Being a mother of two and all..." I am sorry..however but my IC actions have nothing to do with my OOC maturity level or life what so ever. I am sorry if your char is pissed at me. but don't take it out on me OOC.

we RP'ed this.

I offerd you guys a war if you wanted to set it up like this one http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26159.0

 I did not hear back..my idea was to be IC with this..because we did it IC. but all I Got was OOC random challenges and chased down.