Market Formats

[Prolix]

Prolix... I understand your frustration on the magic thing, but the stand in Akkaio, in my opinion, is very well done. If I hadn't seen the weapons standing there, I would have just assumed people were chatting in the shade and not given it a second glance. Please don't slam their efforts in the forums as they are doing a huge service to the game by standing there doing little else but selling their wares. When was the last time you went to a vendor market (flea market) or other venue and they simply handed you a book but you couldn't see anything else? In-game, they can't even create a big banner that tells who they are or what they are selling... so again, please don't criticize their efforts on the forums.

I haven't actually "shopped" at a market in the game. As I said it seems too messy with all the stuff laid out, particularly with labels always on. I have no doubt that player markets are a valuable addition to the game and do not want to discourage their presence, but ..... When I see a bunch of stuff spread out on the ground in front of someone the first thing I think is what is with all that garbage. It probably has to do with my tendency to "police" the map for discarded items and disposing of them properly. That is just me.

My preferred method would be, as I said, a price list on the ground, sandwich board style, with the goods stowed away safely. I think this is not  really possible right now as the books may have been fixed to be unreadable except from inventory, but they used to be good for that purpose.

One of the problems with the spread out inventory is that none of the items are particularly identifiable by sight. There are many types of swords and many fewer graphics for them so I can see a sword on the ground but not what it is with a casual glance. A good thing about it is I can right click on it to examine it. Another problem of this style of market is that it relies on the OOC guarding mechanism. Strictly speaking a couple dozen street urchins ought to be able to clean you out and you will only catch a handful of them.

I do not say my preferences are always the right way to do things and mostly any objections I have to things are meant to say 'this is not optimal how can we improve it?' Maybe it can't be improved but should we not try?

I imagine there is much planned by the development team for this kind of things. Is there anything we can do as players now to improve things while we wait?

[Candy]

Perhaps some heavy glass cases for the wares should be implemented? And some empty market stands around Hydlaa?

I know Harnquist would appreciate the competition staying away from his own shop

[Mythryndel]

I do not mean to say that you are not entitled to your opinion, but it was a bit caustic and off-topic in the other thread. If you want your opinion to be taken as a sincere desire to improve things, I would start a generic topic about merchant etiquette or something [EDIT: which is what this thread seems to be] as opposed to making flippant comments in another thread calling out a specific merchant.

What I saw in Akkaio was Duvek running a stand next to the carpet merchant. When he was running the shop, there were a handful of weapons (not all of his inventory) displayed neatly on the tables and a book in the center with his complete list of merchandise. If I saw a bunch of scattered weapons on the ground, it would possibly annoy me as well. I thought it was very tasteful and I was thrilled that there was a merchant in Akkaio.

I personally don't have a problem with the OOC guarding logic protecting their merchandise. I figure that since they can't advertise with custom made banners and the like, that the merchandise laid out served that purpose well. This, in my opinion,is an acceptable compromise for not having a more mature in-game merchant environment. I have seen other players lay out ore for sale above Trasok's. This allows other players (potential customers) to know at a glance what type of items they are selling.

The graphics will get better and be more complete... soon (TM). I personally took the inventory laid out as just decoration, and not as the actual item for sale. In order to trade the item, the game mechanics require you to have the item in your inventory anyways.

[EDIT] If you right-click and examine the book, you can view it's pages without placing it in your inventory first.

[Prolix]

I didn't really notice who was running the market in Akkaio, he was bathed in a sea of red item tags. I cannot say who it was in particular nor is it important to the comment. I used him as an example for all the rest mainly because of the female elf kneeling at his feet which I felt was a little objectionable. Was she an assistant, a customer, for sale or something else? Anyway that is somewhat off topic here too, best to just move on.

I could just as easily used the market I saw in the Hydlaa plaza where I had trouble distinguishing between the four or five merchants, the various customers and the confusion of merchandise on the ground. Perhaps a solution would be more fine grained label selection so that I could turn off the item labels while retaining player labels. Of course with the hiatus of the introduction system this is more of a concern as formerly I would have had no player labels. It would be nice to be able to select which type of labels I want to see, even to the point of sub-types e.g. weapons, glyphs or what have you. If I am looking at the merchandise, I can see what type it is and get its specific information from right clicking. A sea of red text is less than helpful.

One thing I do not like about weapons in particular is how they stand on their hilt/pommel, I would much prefer they lay flat on the ground but I understand there are issues with that and that this is what we have at the moment.

This is not a call for action but rather a request for future consideration.

[Mythryndel]

I understand better where you are coming from, but it sounds to me like the real issue is not necessarily with the merchants or their displays, but more with the labels. With that in mind, I believe the best course of action might be to fill out a feature request. I agree whole-heartedly that it would be nice to have more control over what messages, labels, etc you can enable or disable.

As to the positioning of certain characters... It could have been intentional, it could have been an accident... you could have voiced your concerns IC and told them to "get a room"... or "/me throws bucket of ice water over x and y"... there are lots of fun ways to address things like this without having to bring it out of game to the forums.

[Prolix]

There is one other thing I can think of right now and that is if littering and painting the land with items is officially discouraged, which I believe is the case, then it is pretty hard to say merchants can do it but others cannot. I am not suggesting that the merchants will not pick up after themselves, just that if people see stuff all over the ground they may tend to be less careful about litter. This is not a big deal to me but it is worth mentioning.

I do know there was a problem of labels in previous versions contributing to lag and that the labels were created even if not displayed, but I think (without checking the bugtracker) that it has been fixed, at least somewhat.

Any ideas about improving things that do not require more work from the team? Anyone?

[Tuxide]

Any ideas about improving things that do not require more work from the team?

Use a bag.

[MustangMR]

Well, I don't have it all memorized, so a price list would be meaningless to me.  Having them laid out lets me inspect them and debate.  When I walked by the vendors, I didn't see labels till I moused over them.  Is there already a setting?

[Prolix]

Of course setting 'on mouseover' for labels would help me in that situation, I just prefer to leave it 'always on'. 'Always off' would do it too. I suppose if I am the only one with concerns about this I can learn to adapt.

About the price list, if you go into a restaurant do you look at the menu and ask the server what the things are that you do not recognize? Many of the magic weapons have effects that you cannot see. Anyway a price list can have descriptions too. It is more work for the vendor so I can see why it might not be popular.

[MustangMR]

In WOW, you get the details by mousing over an item.  They have a very nice system of inspecting and comparing items.  Not saying copy it, but it is nice.  Course, you can't lay anything on the ground in that game either.

I wouldn't think a vendor window would be that hard though.  Just add a window that a person could drag stuff into that is their vendor stuff.  If there's an item in it, when someone right clicks on a person they get a trade icon, which opens the same window every vendor has now, just with the stuff the person put in the bags listed.  Would be pretty easy, but it would take time vs. other things that need doing.

[Mythryndel]

Prolix... I think having your labels "Always On" is going to be a problem. You don't walk around in the real world looking at the word "Clock" hanging over your wall clock... or the word "Wristwatch" hanging over your arm when you look down at your wrist. That does explain why you have such a problem looking at the vendor booths and "litter" though. I would highly recommend you switch to mouse over or only when selected or something. This should seriously help you be less annoyed with all of the items people may leave, because most are very small and blend in to the environment to the point you rarely notice them unless you are looking for them.

[Prolix]

Litter-busters must remain vigilant at all times or risk failing in their calling! 

It is absolutely certain that my choice of options flavors my perspective of the game. Just because I like to profusely relate my impressions does not mean other impressions are not equally valid for the people who experience them. I do not expect anyone to take what I say as gospel. I do try to be logically consistent with my analyses.

[Mythryndel]

You are being logical i suppose. It was just hard to imagine why it was bothering you so much until you mentioned that you had your labels turned on for every object. The vendor booth in Akkaio only had probably 10 weapons laid out on the two tables and two books. I could easily see the merchant behind them and, without the labels, it looked very tasteful (can't speak to the character positioning, didn't observe that myself).