Author Topic: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)  (Read 16836 times)

Xanthan

  • Prospects
  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2009, 09:12:29 pm »
I recently discovered that NPCs will answer the question "How are you?"  Lots of interesting information there!  However, none of the ones I checked will answer anything further about the subjects they raise.  Even ones with very obvious keywords.  Probably this is due to lack of time, to implement all this, but I mention it for completeness.

please list the npc and the question you asked or they might never get fixed ;)

This was true for just just about every NPC.  I am willing to go to every single one and ask all the questions I think they should answer.  Should I post it or PM it?  It will take a little while before I have time to do it.

Caarrie

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 3369
  • We want no UNFIXED bugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • View Profile
    • PlaneShift3dMods
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2009, 09:17:52 pm »
This was true for just just about every NPC.  I am willing to go to every single one and ask all the questions I think they should answer.  Should I post it or PM it?  It will take a little while before I have time to do it.

i would suggest posting it unless a setting dev says otherwise ;)

Aerig

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2009, 06:56:45 pm »
"What is your name, little girl?"

"Umm ... umm ... ... I forgot!"

The point being that, just because 99% of Klyros females in Hydlaa would know their name, not necessarily all would.

So .. if you are going to have a table of questions that all NPC's can answer, you should be able to cause any particular NPC or group of NPC's not to know that >specific< answer.

Obvious things every NPC would be likely to know ... (seem to remember categorised knowledge bases being mentioned before)

Global geographical knowledge
Local geographical knowledge

Geography = geography, climate, flora, fauna, landmarks, districts, streets, general businesses

Global social knowledge
Local social knowledge

Social = politicians, leaders, criminals, neighbours, business people

General racial knowledge
Gender specific racial knowledge

Racial = physiology, culture, inherent talents & limitations, enmities & affiliations

General skill knowledge
Specific skill (relevant to personal accomplishment) knowledge

Skill (any ingame skill, coded or otherwise) = overview, mechanics of practice, specific techniques


Local, racial, gender and age related extensions/restrictions should be applied to each general category to get the RP immersion that PS has been aiming at


I dont know what improvements have been made to the Quest development interface and the underlying code that supports it, so please forgive any redundancy in the suggestions below ...


All knowledge base information should be organised, preferably within a hierarchy of categories, with values associated with each item of knowledge which reflects the general likelihood that that information would be known to a character of average knowledge in that particular area.

For example:

An NPC in Hydlaa could be assumed to have average knowledge of geography in Hydlaa and would have a +0 modifier to their likelihood of knowing/recalling some piece of information.

However, an NPC with a geographer tag might have +40 to know that information, but, being only 10 and not really a geographer but only the child of one, they might have -40 for their age and +5 for being the child of a geographer. So .. +40 -40 +5 = the kid has a +5% chance to know/remember that piece of information.

Each new character would have to have certain tags set, eg Age, Gender, Race, District, Area, Profession, Skills etc. These tags would result in a default set of offsets to their probability of knowing anty particular bit of information.

When a member of the Settings team creates a character, they would specify the tags and the character (unless the creator specifies otherwise) would inherit all knowledge in every knowledge base but also the default offsets according to the characters tags.

Additionally, the creator could tweak the knowledge base offsets individually andor decide that certain questions would or would not be within the NPC's area of knowledge.

Over and above that, the creator could specify character specific overrides on the answers to certain questions. IE the questions that the creator specifically allocates offsets and answes to on that character's definityion should generally come before all inherited knowledge base answers.

Yep, I know, you cant be assed :P But if you work that way you will save yourselves a lot of time and effort.



Okay, beyond that you have the annoying problem, if the quest designer is roughly the same as it was three years ago, that any attitudes you want an NPC to reflect are really going to have to be put in by hand.

Thats obviously always going to be the best option when you go for a method that is more or less one question one answer (or one question select from a number of answers with the same meaning).

But think about the fact that people from different countries have different expressions for things with basicaly the same meaning, eg Goddamnit! ~ Zut alors!

It is the different way of saying it brings the character to life. So suppose you have something like this ..

Categories: 10 years, male, Klyros, Slum, Hydlaa

Conversational Tone: Discontented Agreement

Perhaps the character creator chooses the Conversational Tone based on specific criteria or perhaps that is automatically selected by the game according to some aspect or another of the player character.

Each age, gender, race, location etc would have its own configuration of conversational interjection for each of the keywords in the 'sentence' below according to the tone of the NPC's conversation.

For example: [Expletive] [Augmentative] [Preamble] [Content]

"[May the wings of the blue one be clipped!] [It is a dismal day] [that my feathers brush your brows]. [content->] I have heard that Councilllor Yfelgroen may be [feathering his nest with down from the breast of] Lady Swift Aloft!

In the tone of Discontented Agreement, in the context of a middle aged Kyros slum dweller in Hydlaa, the emboldened phrases are filled in depending on the tags for the NPC.

[Comment] is defined as:

I have heard that Councilllor Yfelgroen may be [selfishly appropriative of] Lady Swift Aloft!


To get an atmospheric response, each element in [] is repeatedly processed (according to the NPC's tags) until the final dialog is created.


Yep .. I know .. you dont want to do all the work that is involved in creating something so elegant. But if you took a few months to set up something as infinitely expandable as that, then your next 10 years would be 10 times more productive.

Consider what you would achieve if you had someone assigned to creating dialog for each race according to location, gender and age!

Prolix

  • Guest
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2009, 11:29:48 pm »
I just want to know "What are you doing?"

Arerano

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 231
    • View Profile
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2009, 12:40:42 am »
Well, I know that this doesn't really fit here, but this just crossed my mind now that I skimmed through the posts here.
I just happen to have an own "chat bot" who I want to appear "natural"/human.

The main reason why NPCs appear like a strict input-match->output system is because they don't remember anything of what you said.
It just doesn't feel like a conversation.. it really isn't one either.
But now imagine the NPCs actually asking questions in return (and even remembering what you just said).

Example:
Q: Who are you?
A: I am X, Y of Z. And who are you?

Getting that question answered, a KA could be created for this player-NPC combination and if someone else asks the NPC: Do you know Arerano?, the NPC will mayb actually know if he/she did have a talk with that person already.

I know, I know.. it's not that simple and it's something one could spend years thinking about and still having plenty of imperfections. - it just crossed my mind again.


Caarrie

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 3369
  • We want no UNFIXED bugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • View Profile
    • PlaneShift3dMods
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2009, 12:55:39 am »
Getting that question answered, a KA could be created for this player-NPC combination and if someone else asks the NPC: Do you know Arerano?, the NPC will mayb actually know if he/she did have a talk with that person already.

sounds a lot like the chat bot and it is talked about here http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=29489.0 and it was declined by the setting devs due to the amount of work it would take to verify all the info that is added is valid.

Arerano

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 231
    • View Profile
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #66 on: January 25, 2009, 02:55:30 pm »
it was declined by the setting devs due to the amount of work it would take to verify all the info that is added is valid.

I wasn't talking about "players being able to modify existing responses" (by saying "no, you're wrong, you ought to say X instead"), but to have specific areas of knowledge the NPCs can inqure about.
Of course, players will have to report abuse, but how does that differ from character descriptions or even chat.

I wasn't saying something like "look, their code is great, why not using that instead" either.  ;)

Jarexia

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2009, 03:57:23 pm »
It would be nice if Tyrus Beaut had some responses to...
about Talad
about Laanx
about Konroran
about Aedaisti
about Iduello (or "Iduello Beaut"...though "Beaut" now seems to give responses about Tyrus)
about Ilallorin ("Ilallorin Cor" now gives a response that seems appropriate to Kerryk)

In fact Kerryk could do with some responses to those too.

khoridor

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 352
    • View Profile
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2009, 05:06:13 pm »
That should rather go in the "Think NPCs are dumb?" thread.

By the way, since we hear about menu dialogs, are the latter thread and this one here still relevant?  :detective:

Caarrie

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 3369
  • We want no UNFIXED bugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • View Profile
    • PlaneShift3dMods
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2009, 05:42:10 pm »
By the way, since we hear about menu dialogs, are the latter thread and this one here still relevant?  :detective:

for now those are only for quests so keep up what the devs have asked for and they have to enabled for each quest so if you see them at all on laanx has not been decided as far as i know.

catarina

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2009, 11:00:59 pm »
*relocating this post from it's starting point in complaint department to this thread*

This really isn't a complaint, more an observation that I find a bit strange. I was walking around hydlaa today talking to various NPC's, asking random questions to see what responses they gave me. I stopped in the plaza to speak to the fenki there named Tarela. We began to chit-chat back and forth, and she told me that she was looking for information about hydlaa, and that she lives in ojaveda. So then I began asking her about the npc's that can be found in ojaveda. I started out by asking 'who is brado?', thinking that she, living in ojaveda, would be very familar with the folks there. What did she say to me? 'I don't think I understand you...'...a bit strange, not knowing who Brado is. She also doesn't know who trasok is.
Also, when I asked her 'who is harnquist', she launched into a long-winded reply about how he found an axe a long time ago or something....but she never really said -who- harnquist was.
I had to walk away  before I got really confused.

~rina

Prolix

  • Guest
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #71 on: February 10, 2009, 12:02:30 am »
They should respond to "shut up"

Roled

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #72 on: February 10, 2009, 01:26:48 am »
Some of them do you know... try saying that to Barrin!

I know from experience.  ::|
Roled Rolak
"RR is a PieSexual" ~ Monala

Jaygan

  • Wayfarer
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2009, 02:19:23 am »
I think every NPC should have a way to resume quest conversations, something like 'What were we just talking about?'  that would work regardless of which NPC or which quest.

enderandrew

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 166
    • View Profile
    • Caamasi Disciples
Re: Things every NPC should answer...but don't (add your own!)
« Reply #74 on: April 08, 2009, 03:04:34 am »
Once I really started poking and prodding I found NPCs had more answers than I assumed they would.

I'd just like to see more individual responses, even on general questions such as "about Laanx" or "about Hammerwielder".
http://caamasi-disciples.com - A SW:TOR Republic guild focused on casual players who want to play "the Good Guy."