Author Topic: How does one stealth = 'hide in shadow'  (Read 2716 times)

Malehizen

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How does one stealth = 'hide in shadow'
« on: May 27, 2008, 12:37:18 am »
I've been trying to 'hide in shadow but nothing is really happening and i'm not gaining any experience in the skill when i did sneak up behind someone. Some explaination on how-to would be nice.
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steuben

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Re: How does one stealth = 'hide in shadow'
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2008, 12:49:06 am »
you don't. the skill isn't implemented yet.
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Sen

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Re: How does one stealth = 'hide in shadow'
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2008, 08:18:31 am »
Hmmm... having it implemented might help in having more dark/evil chars
* Sen votes for soon implementation  :sorcerer:
(btw, would it be something rather difficult or rather easy?)
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Kaityra

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Re: How does one stealth = 'hide in shadow'
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2008, 09:13:59 am »
I don't think that "sneaking" and "hide in shadows" has to be limited to dark and/or evi characters only. What about rangers such as Aragorn from Lord of the Rings? I'm pretty sure that they know much about stealth and how to hide in shadows.
So please, "sneaking" and "hide in shadows" for every characters where it fits. At the moment there is only an animation for "sneaking".

LigH

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Re: How does one stealth = 'hide in shadow'
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2008, 01:08:41 pm »
The technical implementation won't be too hard, IMHO. A translucent appearance of an avatar is possibly supported by the game engine. A little harder may be the implementation of the logic when it will work how reliably.

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Kaityra

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Re: How does one stealth = 'hide in shadow'
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 12:12:21 pm »
The technical implementation won't be too hard, IMHO. A translucent appearance of an avatar is possibly supported by the game engine. A little harder may be the implementation of the logic when it will work how reliably.

Well, I guess the technical implementation depends on the "logic" one wants to implement and can be therefore quite complicated. Using a translucent appearance would give this skill a somewhat magical part. I think darkening the model according to the surrounding would be a little bit more realistic but it wouldn't allow a character to disappear completely. I think one should not be able to use "hide in shadows" in situations where there is no "shadow", e.g. in bright light on an empty place.
I think "sneak" or "move silently" will only work on NSCs as long as we don't have sounds and a player is able to have a 360° field of view through certain camera settings.

TymTheEnchanter

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Re: How does one stealth = 'hide in shadow'
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2008, 10:21:43 pm »
Isn't stealth more about being able to move about unnoticed?

It is perfectly possible for someone who is skilled in the art to move through, for example, a village square and no be noticed by anyone (as no one one pays them any attention). This is partly due to appearance/clothing, partly demeanour and partly just how they move from one area of the square to another (it is a form of social engineering/study/understanding). For example, someone dressed appropriately moving quitetly and casually between stalls or groups of people, stopping to chat to a few here and there is not likely to be noticed (or recalled when asked if they say person x at a later date) unless someone is specifically looking out for them. Similarly, it is possible, but *MUCH* harder to do something similar in a nearly empty location as well.

Things like shadows and darkness make the task easier in some circumstances, especially if there are large areas of dark shadow to move in, but because shadows are created by light sources this can make shadows quite hard to use. Also hiding in shadows needs different clothing and skill than moving unnoticed, and is more focused on slow, steady and silent movement.

From an implementation point of view, there is a flag in the message associated with persisting an actor which can be set to invisible, resulting (I think) in the client not rendering the actor. This might be able to be set to a different value for each client, depending on their character's perceptiveness, and might be able to be toggled (at least with a removeObject followed by persistActor message pairing - not sure if that is the proper way to do it, but might be a start). This should basically result in the player that is 'sneaking' appearing and disappearing, at different times for different players, as the move through an area, rather than a translucent or darkened appearance.

For stealth as a whole, as the skill is really made up of a number different skills, moving silently, moving in darkened areas, moving around without standing out (in a lit or busy area), or moving whilst making sounds appropriate to the surroundings (not even animals move silently through a forest) maybe the skill needs to be separated into different parts so players can use the skill(s) they need to. Why force a player to train a hide in shadows skill, when they just want to move silently behind a low wall in daylight so the people on the other side don't hear them?

Kaityra

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Re: How does one stealth = 'hide in shadow'
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2008, 11:03:23 pm »
It is perfectly possible for someone who is skilled in the art to move through, for example, a village square and no be noticed by anyone (as no one one pays them any attention).

If there is a market, where a lot of strangers are, or if the village is used to the passing of strangers because it is next to a common route then yes, else it is just the opposit. Any stranger entering a "small" village  is a diversion to the daily routine there, where everybody knows everyone, and will sure draw quite a deal of attention.

In RL someone who applies stealth would use certain circumstances, e.g. mingling with the crowd, guards looking away, etc., and the enviroment, e.g. shadows, obstacles, etc. It seems that it is not possible to implement the use of all these circumstances and enviroment features so invisibilty seems to be the only solution to implement "hide in shadows" though it still strikes me odd. Or does anybody else have a good idea?

Hmmm ... I could have sworn that there was an additional skill for moving silently but it seems that "hide in shadows" is the only skill we have for stealth.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 10:17:44 am by Kaityra »

Malehizen

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Re: How does one stealth = 'hide in shadow'
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2008, 11:35:42 pm »
Well... i was kinda hoping, in assassination terms, like back stab and such, that a player could kill a target or just spy. But the main point is that, when ever someone hides in the shadows in real life, it's kinda hard to see them because of the light keeping you from seeing clearly into the dark. So maybe the hide in shadow would only really work from a darker to a lighter area. Like i could sneak up behind an NPC in the sewers if i snuck from a dark corner, but as for lighted places, only from the shadows to someone/thing standing in the light. If i was standing in the shadow as well, i could see you perfectly. But since this is a magical game and not a medieval/materialistic one, maybe turning slightly like your surroundings in a translucent way of hiding. The longer you stand perfectly still, the less threat you will appear as well as the more 'invisible' you will be. So the higher the skill of 'Hide in shadow' the faster you turn 'invisible' and maybe even turn more 'invisible'. NPCs should have something like an attention span, the less intelligent and unsuspecting, the easier the target. Guards and highly perceptive NCPs or player should be able to detect "hiding" players easier. In my final remarks, think something like Assassin's Creed.
You will only receive as much respect and integrity and you show to others...

It takes 11 muscles to frown and 4 to slap that motherf@#$er across the face :D