My first complaint ever

[RoberetGoldsmith]

My suggestion is if you like role play then role play. I hope the more people who role play the less nonsense we will have in game. Though I have to agree with you on one point, today's players are much less helpful and friendly then they were years back.

Errrm arn't we the players........... unless all of you just sit on the forums

The point being your a players, so you don't have to  mean to new comers, and those that do, well their the minority

[Ulfer]

My suggestion is if you like role play then role play. I hope the more people who role play the less nonsense we will have in game. Though I have to agree with you on one point, today's players are much less helpful and friendly then they were years back.

Errrm arn't we the players........... unless all of you just sit on the forums

The point being your a players, so you don't have to  mean to new comers, and those that do, well their the minority

In all fairness it's not just the "non RPers" that give the problems... it's some of the RPers" as well... I mean, for instance... I walk into a tavern to RP a little after leveling up and such, it's a nice break while getting to know more people though no more than 10 minutes in doing so I get threatened and insulted IC for no provocation. The bickering goes on for some time, more people get involved and I hate the hour long rants which has been known to stretch over a week so I propose a duel to settle things, whether outside the city gates or depending on the situation, a fist fight... but oh no, there are those "RPers" (some not been in the game 5 minutes, an alt oe otherwise) that NEVER play the actual game, brag up their characters as some sort of Warrior Hero or something - of which I could swing a ragged battle axe and kill them outright. I mean,"RPers" claim to be what PS is all about... keeping it believable and feasible? I mean, c'mon... anyway, nothing gets resolved, there's constant bickering and gradually annoyance over the constant, draining and time consuming dialogue because the "RPer" doesnt like leveling or duelling but prefers to RP something that they're not. I don't want to "RP a fight" with you ok? lol I've took a long time developing a character and not prepared to be defeated or threatened by someone who is no stronger than a rat, and have them god-mod a fight and win, or not, then complain and complain ooc. I'm kind of sick of reading about how "non RPers" are the problem... it works two ways you expect people to RP? then you play the game! simple! they should be parallel to each other... PS is a game, not purely a chat program... and yes there are people who may say "noob" and "l337" or whatever but PS is a game for all ages and it's more likely than not, a much younger player than yourself...

I suggest if you want to try and get more people to RP, then do so logically and within feasible reason to your character. I have been in and witnessed the most bizarre RPs, decapitations on the streets, demon possessions, and even cults of new Gods... settings? It makes me think, why bother wasting my time RPing with people who act this way? then I see people flaming other people trying to get into RP, trying their best, but apparently not good enough for such and suches standards... you should look at the bigger picture, sure... people don't RP, some don't do it as well as others, but some do and think they can write a book on it... but there are those that are very good, helpful, and very generous but all I am saying is that everyone has a part to play.

As for the power-leveling, I have to admit... I'm guilty of doing this, sitting among clackers to level armor etc but the levels become difficult to advance and costly so this is needed to stay on par with the rest of the PvPers... PvP is something I also enjoy and unfortunatly, I was shown these 'shortcuts' when I first started playing and my philosophy is - if they are doing it, why can't I? but since I have cut down doing such and made my training more believable by, uhm, staying in fullydefensive in a clacker fight... same result but looks better? *shrugs* if there's a shortcut or a corner to cut out, people are going to take it... if you don't, you're going to get left behind

Yes its an RPg,
yes there are game mechanics,
yes you should only level certain skills and up to point that corresponds to the role you are playing,
yes everyone seems to want to be either 'the best' or RP's skills that are available mechanically
yes people tend to max every skill (group) thus having a character description that doesnt fit the skills they mechanically have obtained
yes its a beta, just wait for the wipe

SO, after a long winded waffling post.. I agree with Quq... lol

[Prolix]

While it is true that training armor can be a problem because even when the mobs are vulnerable they do not always fight back, fighting ones that cannot hurt you in a fully defensive manner is kind of cheesy to me. It is taking advantage of their mindless nature i.e. their inability to run away when they finally understand they cannot do anything or even stopping the fight because they are tired. You really ought to be trying to kill them, use ruined weapons, feeble magic, or fight more significant critters. Do not get me wrong, I used to do it too on occasion but ultimately figured that it was less important to max out than it was to stay interested.

[Ulfer]

Through no fault of anyones NPCs become impervious and have, in the past, been in this state for up to a week. I think people want to get the most out of training (well, I do) while they can but I totally agree what you're saying Prolix, this should be the case - but it largely isn't. I prefer to train on Ulber/Maulbernauts - something with very high hp so it takes a long time to wear down thus giving much training and PP but these options are also popular with many other players.. so I sometimes find myself in the arena clacker pit.

[theirah]

In real life, could we not train our defensive skills and reflexes against something weak and harmless? Same logic as to why people would fight against a punching bag. It cant hit back. But it is an easy way to train. Why would a character not want to train by going against something obviously weaker than them?

as for the rp vs powerlvler arguement, just how many people do you see running around yelling noob or 1337? lol, smilies, or abbreviations like "tefu" or "hyd" are probably more common.

As to why pvpers are attracted to this game: oddly enough, though this game is meant to be an rp game, it has a unique combat system that is entertaining, easy to learn but hard to master. In my opinion, and perhaps many others, It has a better melee combat system than any other mmorpg out there, including stuff like WoW, guild wars, shadowbane, etc. Its the only one in which movement is so essential. Makes it a bit ironic...

[Prolix]

How much armor training do you expect to get from a five year old having a tantrum and how does it relate to actual combat? Sure at low levels it might have some benefit when you discover you are not wearing the codpiece correctly after little johnny scores a direct hit accidentally but not much else.

[theirah]

sure, from one five year old. try fending off ten of them at once.

[Mythryndel]

For the sake of argument... yes... having 3 - 10 10 year olds, or younger, all attacking you at the same time DOES teach you defense and how to move quickly IRL. I know this from experience as a martial artist.

However, given the game mechanics, you have to be hit, but receive no damage to get practice in your armor. If you take damage from the hit, then it doesn't count. If you dodge completely or they miss, you get no practice. If you want to blame something/someone for the use of rats and clackers for armor training, it is the current implementation of the game mechanics. I would happily use higher level creatures and gain practice using my armor going up against ulbers, but they refuse to pull their punches, and if they do damage, i get nothing for it except flesh wounds.

[Prolix]

I seem to get plenty of practice from glads and rogues, they do not last too long for the most part but they are better than rats. The payoff is better too. My armor skills are fair to middling, nothing to write home about and I generally use normal weapons or whatever ones I can craft for myself with my limited crafting skills.

[Mythryndel]

I try to use a couple of rats and a couple of rogues and go full defensive, but hey... I'd love to gain armor experience while doing my normal hunting of trepors, tefusangs, and ulbernauts... but the way things are set right now, I get almost nothing for armor use when I do that. Such is life, but how else should you go about training armor than to use lower level creatures?

[Prolix]

Well that could be considered exploiting a bug because theoretically fighting such insignificant critters really ought to give no practice. One day you may very well wake up and say "Hey I can't get practice from low level monsters anymore why did you fix it!" To my mind it is clearly wrong and no different that the bugged climbing that was just changed. It is also no different than fighting monsters that do not fight back, particularly the ones you could not fight if they did retaliate. It may be tolerated somewhat but that does not mean you cannot get nailed for it if they decide to enforce it. It is more likely to just stop being an effective technique one day. Seriously how do you explain a bunch of rats teaching you to fend off attacks from an Onyx Dagger? It can't be done.

If you look at crafting the early jobs stop giving practice fairly quick. I never go full defensive, I never go defensive, I mostly just attack normal and my armor skills go up faster than I can pay for them for the most part. Of course I mix my armor to train all three types and do the same with the weapons I have. I ignore magic mostly as you can't do everything. It is slow but it is organic. I have no trouble rationalizing it.

[Mythryndel]

I am not wanting to start a fight here, but even IRL Martial Arts require that the teachers/trainers/masters pull their punches when trying to teach you new things. You can't just go up against someone that can knock you out in 1 or 2 punches and learn much of anything from the encounter. Maybe "not get hit", but not how to avoid the hits. If there was a practice area where you weren't going to be able to kill things quickly, but at the same time, weren't going to die quickly either, then I would use it. As it stands right now, the game mechanics don't support having higher level critters allowing you to gain armor experience. Call it what you will, but it is what works right now. I personally will not complain if i can work my armor skill when going out hunting as normal. I get very bored sitting there with rats chewing on me and killing my armor. Although it did help me to work on my armor repair skill.

[EDIT] I do not mean literally sitting. I am standing, full defensive or defensive. I think it would be very OOC to just literally sit down while being attacked by creatures.

[Prolix]

All I know is that I mentioned to a gm onetime that I saw a player sitting among a bunch of attacking critters that could not hurt him and the gm asked me what the characters name was so that he could take action. The gm seemed to think it was unwanted behavior whether that was just his personal opinion of if it is official policy I cannot tell. I did not note the players name at the time and do not recall which gm I was talking to either. It does seem to go against the philosophy of the game however you want to justify it for yourself. You are power leveling and not role playing.

If that is what you want to do be my guest. I do what makes sense for my character to do and not whatever I can do to optimize training. It has been a fair few levels since I fought ulbernauts because my drive by slice and dice technique became much less effective. I might try again but I will admit that if the ulber never is in range when it attacks you won't get any armor practice.

Parting shot -- which real life martial artist that I may have heard of trained to the top of his field fighting only feeble opponents?

[Waylander]

I do dislike power levelers, I also dislike god modders.  It's all about finding a decent medium but, if there is one power leveler it will cause others to power level in order to keep their 'strongest warrior' RP.  RPers do need to train, it really is annoying at the beginning but it gets better.  Nurahk (though he was once near maxed out) is amazingly weak but, every few days he'll be seen hacking at a rat or gobble or what not trying to get a little bit stronger.

Either way, just wanted to say I really enjoyed Ulfer's post.  Was quite refreshing to hear the other side.

[Prolix]

Really I think it indicates a flaw in the implementation. You really should get no benefit from behavior like that. In the crafting the easy jobs stop giving practice as the more difficult one come available. Combat should be the same. Similarly with magic there should be contextual consequences for casting magic for the sole purpose of practice. Standing there and casting rock armor over and over and never going into combat is just ridiculous. One ought to have some respect or awe of the arcane. Really when you see one of these people casting over and over without stopping it makes you think of obsessive/compulsive disorder.  Some kind of mania. And doing it by the trainer ought to annoy him immensely.

It is understandable from an out of context perspective.