not enough people use the bug tracker

[Prolix]

What returns if I do a search for something that is "hidden"?

You will not find that on the bug tracker unless you are the one who opened it. I have one or two bugs in that state and I have to log in to the tracker in order to see them, even if I receive an email notification of new developments in them.

What happened to me is that some discussion went on in my report and there was another related bug that was also hidden that I cannot see.  In a case like this your bug may be marked as a duplicate if it is not different enough or it may remain open. You will be able to see your bug. If you are on the team it may be different.

[Lanarel]

I think the main problems are not in that there are no fields showing you what information you should give:). There are many different bugs, requiring different information, and fields for all these (N/A for severa fieldsl in many reports) will not make it easier to read . The test team will ask for information if it is missing. Our main task could be seen as to make sure the reports include necessary information, so we will ask the reporter if it is missing. The main thing we ask, is that the person reporting a bug, will stay around to ask our questions.

About hidden bugs: they are mostly describing major exploits, or spoiler information in quests. If you make a duplicate of such a bug, no-one will complain, but if there is no new information in the report, it will be closed as a duplicate, without giving the reporter access to the hidden original. Also, the current version of the bug tracker we use, has some limitations in allowing someone to see it, which is one of the reasons we will not normally give someone access besides the reporter, test team, and interested devs. Hopefully an update of the tracker (which requires newer version of software on the server) will make this a bit easier.

[Caarrie]

also to add to this, at any one time we on average about 3-4 testers that are activtly reading the tracker and following bugs. Each of us are tracking many bugs and are trying to pick up the new ones that are reported each day. If we are not able to confirm the issue and do request further information and dont get any it makes it much harder if not impossible for us to verify the bug and try to request it to be fixed. If you do make a report please make sure you watch your email and watch the bug report for further comments from us requesting information and please try to post the requested information so we can help get the issue fixed. If you are asked to post information and dont have current access to the information atleast post that you know you are requested to post and will asap or when you can. If you do not post infomation we will close the bug if no one can duplicate it, but you can always request it to be reopened and we will if you give the requested information and we are able to confirm the issue.

[Waoknie]

Hello all..

 Sometimes I encounter things that I may consider as a bug. As Xillix pointed: "if there is clearly no reason for something to be as it is it is a bug".. -This is still vague definition for me, yet I cannot think of a better one.

 I've been kinda discouraged to use/report to bugtracker for seeing the recurrent "it's a known issue" phrase in IRC once a user brings up some old bug or problem. By no means I'm asking to change something on that. It's just that I cannot tell if it's a known issue or not. And the fact that the bug data has deleted or closed threads, makes it more dificult for me.

 I dunno about the correct procedure but as I am also checking into IRC constantly, next time I find some weird thing, I'll bring it up to IRC as it works IMO as a good filter for "known issues". Then, I'll see how to take it to the tracker.

 If you guys have suggestions for doing it better, lemme know.

[Prolix]

Advanced search will let you find closed threads, you still won't see the hidden ones. Another thing useful in the advanced search is to search details and comments. You may find a bunch of unrelated stuff but you ought to get more hits. I go on irc rarely but sometimes if I think I have found a bug I will ask on #planeshift-build. Sometimes it is hard to get an answer because there is either no-one there or they are busy, but other times they can point you in the right direction. It may be that what you have found relates to bug X that they can point you to where you should make a comment instead of making a completely new report. A lot of times I get no response there so just end up posting a new report.

The big thing as mentioned before is to follow your bugs. You can get email notification so it is not difficult.

Another thing I like to do is to browse the task list to see if anything strikes a chord with me and I'll look at the comments and possibly add my two cents. Of course if you do this then you should follow these bugs as well. Just remember the developers have the final say so give your input but do not flog it once a decision has been taken. Often there will be several points of view expressed as to how it should be dealt with but ultimately it is up to the person who is going to deal with it and whoever is above him on the seniority list.

[Caarrie]

I've been kinda discouraged to use/report to bugtracker for seeing the recurrent "it's a known issue" phrase in IRC once a user brings up some old bug or problem. By no means I'm asking to change something on that. It's just that I cannot tell if it's a known issue or not. And the fact that the bug data has deleted or closed threads, makes it more dificult for me.

 I dunno about the correct procedure but as I am also checking into IRC constantly, next time I find some weird thing, I'll bring it up to IRC as it works IMO as a good filter for "known issues". Then, I'll see how to take it to the tracker.

 If you guys have suggestions for doing it better, lemme know.

If you wish to report bugs when ingame to the gms please use /petition and NOT /report. If you are not sure if it is known or not, report it anyone on the tracker it is easier for us to follow and get feedback from you if you do, if it is known we will close it. It is actually better to report a bug that is a duplicate then not report it at all. By reporting it again we get it confirmed it is still an issue and might get more information from the new report to add to the old one. You could also as on irc in #planeshift-build if it is a known issue and if so then you can add your info to the existing report.

[Waoknie]

That was helpful.. ty both

[Zwenze]

...
I've been kinda discouraged to use/report to bugtracker for seeing the recurrent "it's a known issue" phrase in IRC once a user brings up some old bug or problem. By no means I'm asking to change something on that. It's just that I cannot tell if it's a known issue or not. And the fact that the bug data has deleted or closed threads, makes it more dificult for me.
...

Devs who work on bugs have 1000 things in mind and will write a quick "dupe of #XYZ - closed". This can be frustrating. But try to think in what the condition the dev at that moment is. He has to think of other bugs, 1000 lines of code and other stuff. In such a state you write as short and precise as possible, like comments in code. So if you read "dupe of #XYZ - closed", interpret it as:

Dear bugreporter,

thank you for your effort to report this bug. We allready know about that issue as it was also reported in bug number #XYZ and will work on it as soon as possible. Have a nice day and enjoy planeshift.

Your developer team

[Caarrie]

I have found out that some people dont even know where the advanced search feature is on the bug tracker. Here is a short video you can watch on how to find and use the advanced search feature to get more search results. You will not get private bugs in your search unless you made the bug or you are assigned to it [in the  case of testers/gms/devs]. As you can see in the example i used the phrase updater as my search string and got a few different number of bugs depending on what settings i selected in the advanced search box. [i am not a professional video taker so take it for what it is worth] It is about 1 minute long and should not take all that long to download for most people.

http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/bluedoglov/planeshift/?action=view&current=SafariScreenSnapz001.flv
 
 

[Mythryndel]

Zwenze... you are thinking like a coder. You are not thinking like a non-techie. I spend most my days over the last 5 and a half years being a pass-through for end users and coders. Unfortunately a lot of coders really don't have much in the way of people skills. Is it really that much more difficult to come up with some polite boiler plate to put in the ticket instead of a very brief "dupe of XYZ - closed" that makes the user that reported it feel like they didn't really do anything worthwhile?

I think that you/we are kind of in a catch-22. The coders feel like their efforts are unappreciated, but so do the users that are doing their part and getting a brush off. Do I have all the answers? no. Have I come up with a spiderman decoder ring for translating end user < - > coder? Um... i am still employed... so again... no.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Mythryndel, you have a point, but you also seem to like picking nits.

You are welcome to act as coder apologist.

We don't have time to send everyone flowers.

[Mythryndel]

Xillix.... guilty as charged... at least on occasion. The thread topic is, at least in my mind, asking why people aren't just tripping over themselves to report bugs. This is one of the things I see as a reason for this. I deal with this on a daily basis professionally. Non-technical people who aren't given at least a marginally personal response are going to be inclined to not bother providing information in the future. That is why so many companies spend so much time and effort on customer service. That is also why the person on the other end of the phone is a non-techie reading from a script instead of a real tech...

I understand that PS does not have a budget for such things. But if you don't at least treat people that report bugs as people, instead of a faceless, nameless incident reports, then they aren't going to continue trying to help. All the while, the techies, are sitting around scratching their heads wondering why the people don't assume as Zwenze does that X = Y.

[Prolix]

Personally I can handle a bit of abruptness although I do tend a little towards paranoia. Still first steps should be encouraged, it does not take much to add "Thank you for the report" to "Dupe of flyspray 666 -- closed." You do not need to do it all the time but if you do not recognize the poster there is a good chance they are new. Close my bugs I do not mind, I have been around for a while and done this stuff elsewhere too. You want to encourage the faint of heart, just as you want to encourage the non role players.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

I think we all need some counseling . . .

* Xillix Queen of Fools sends prolix and myth a carebear and a snork

In the mean time I have players complaining incessantly and only one real means to get things done.

If you want someone to hold your hand, if you need customer service reps go PAY wow, in the mean time we need help.

multi-million dollar company vs. group of witty committed (committable?) devs  . . .

cry me a river, then whitewater raft your ass to the bug tracker.

[Caarrie]

lets see there are 5 testers or so there are 531 open bugs or so. so that leaves about 100 bugs per tester to keep track of if not more as we tent to work together. We dont always have time to check and see if the person is a first time bug reporter and be nice when we close the bug as a dup. We do have a rl as well as spending hours helping out planeshift. I personally have some time i could be a little nicer but i dont have all the time in the world, as it is it might take 15+ minutes at times to find the bug that it is a dup of depending on what terms i search with. I also have other things i have to work on and so do the other testers. Which would you want,

closed dup of bug xxx

or

dup closed

atleast we do take the time to find what bug it is a dup of so that you can go and add info to the orginal bug if needed. We are trying to work with all, we are still in the process of making rules for all of us to work with. When we get rules that players need to know other then the guides posted on the tracker we will make sure you guys get them. As a tester we do a lot of work not all is just on the tracker and visable to all of you to see. Like right now we are working on stuff for Talad and the dev team. We also have  internal tasks we have to do to help make our own job easier. You want a better testing team that has more time to talk to players and work out when and if bugs should be reported, take time to talk to us about joining the team.