Author Topic: Advisors, Advising, and Advice  (Read 2567 times)

SerqFeht

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Advisors, Advising, and Advice
« on: June 23, 2008, 01:11:11 am »
There really isn't a clear definition of advising, its rules, or its purpose. We'll try to form up one here, both for advisors, and those seeking advice. This is my definition, as close as it gets:
An Advisor is there to render the game playable for those asking questions. When a question does not have to be answered for the game to be enjoyed, that question is most likely either a spoiler, or should be asked to players in-game.

But the most important thing to start with is the act of asking for help. Never type unhelpful, rude, or obnoxious things. We understand that the tutorial can be annoying and difficult. Some NPCs don't respond to requests for help. But please, polite and descriptive requests will only benefit you.

For example, don't say:
"Help!"
"WTF!"
"Harnquist sucks!"
"I'm lost"
"These stupid NPCs"
"I'm in hell!"

Instead say:
"Excuse me, I seem to have gotten stuck in the tutorial. Allelia wil only repeat the phrase "About X," and Neave doesn't understand me. What should I say and do?"
"I seem to have gotten lost in the death realm, and no players will help me out. Can someone show me the way?"

Hopefully, any advisors on will try to remedy your situation. Don't request obvious spoilers, only things you need solved for the game to be playable.

Once you know your way around, and want to help out a little yourself, it is time to become an advisor. Yes, you can become an advisor! Everyone can, if they are willing! First, to become one, you must make sure that you are ready, after fulfilling the fact that you must have been in-game for 30 real time hours before you can start.

Checklist to activate advisor mode
-Are you willing to help?
-Are you sure you aren't busy doing activities that might kill you or mess you up if you are advising?
-Do you have the time to answer extended questions?
-Do you have a positive attitude?

With all of those checked off, it is time. Type /advisormode on and wait.

After a while, someone will need help. About 75% of requests involve tutorials and NPCs. Let's asume your help window starts flashing. You see this message:

Xyvaskordia: I seem to have gotten lost in the death realm, and no players will help me out. Can someone show me the way?

You want to answer this question. Type /advice Xyvaskordia If no one will lead you out, I will gladly show you myself. Meet me in the beginning of the Death Realm in 4 minutes, please.

Remember, if you don't want to take a request, no one is making you. You can let someone else handle them.

Mechanics of the Help window
To talk to someone on the help window, everytime you must type /advice Xyvaskordia [message] out. Advice is anonymous to the question seekers, but other advisors can see it. When someone posts a question that is unanswered, once a minute it will repeat. After 3 repeats, in your system window, you will see this message: Xyvaskordia's messenger taps his foot impatiently. That will repeat once every 2 minutes infinitely. After you claim a session, and you don't answer the last reply of seeker (Common if they type thank you after your last advice), it will repeat the message 3 times, then after 5 minutes terminate the session. Also, typing /advisor_list will show you if you are advising alone, or if multible people are advising.

There are some rules, though, that must be followed.

==Be Polite==
Let's say Xyvaskordia says: I need help Harn or whatever is stupid
Don't say /advice Xyvaskordia Tell why u noob
Try saying /advice Xyvaskordia In what aspect are you having troubles with him?

==Don't ignore sessions you've already taken==
If someone has a question you answer, then they hit you with a really crappy question that will take forever to explain, well, then, you've already obligated yourself to helping them. Finish the job. It is better to answer one players question very well than to half-answer 5 askers.

==GMs are not advising for you==
While GMs will pay attention to what you say, to make sure you aren't screwing up any seekers and to help consider any future applications to the GM team, they aren't there to do your job. Don't ask for their help in advising unless you really need it, such as if the players are stuck, or are talking to a very buggy NPC that you can't untangle the phrasing to. In fact, GMs will force advisors that give bad, misleading, or spoilerish advice to step down, and ban them from advising if they repeatedly do it.

==Help someone if no one else does==
If you check back and see no one has explained the tutorial to someone yet, try to help them. It sucks waiting half an hour for a game making request.

==Don't offer spoilers==
It isn't your job to corrupt quest takers. That job belongs to their guild mates. If they are stuck, and can't find this NPC, or that item, try this: /advice Xyvaskordia Try asking the NPC who told you to find X, and see what they know.

==You can't help everyone==
Sometimes people get lost in the outer bronze doors, or the Oja road, or wherever. If you can get them to tell you where they are, you can lead them back to civilization. But GMs can't teleport you to their location, or teleport them to Hydlaa. You must do it yourself. And if you can't find them, then apologize, and tell them that they must find and follow another player.

Use links to helpful sites
If you can't help them, link them to the website and this forum, particularly the tutorial walkthrough and the guides section. Use these when you try to troubleshoot NPC dialouge through the seeker, and link to them if you can't get it right.

==Don't give poor advice==
If you don't know the answer to a question, don't take the session, even if no one else does. The person asking will view your advice as a sages, and follow it exactly (unless they don't). If you don't know, don't answer, or if it is in a session that continued, admit you don't know, or even ask your guildies if they know.

Spoilers in Advice
Never give the following as advice:
-NPC Locations (Besides Harn, Allelia, Brado, and Trasok, the 4 most important NPCs)
-Stats and Trainers
-Quest information
-Mine Locations
-Advanced Stats such as Crafting and Metallurgy

Advising is to help stuck people. If it is advanced or that highly specific, they should be asking characters in game. They should be using roleplay to find out where a mine is, not an OOC help window. You are there to give solutions to tutorials, explain OOC concepts such as pp and exp, and you can explain basic skills and training windows. Usually you won't need to go that far. Players advanced enough to train crafting have guild members to teach them. Your job is to help assimilate new players into the game mechanics, answer some questions about basic targeting, NPC chatting, and that there are no maps implemented yet.

When you are done advising, when you've had enough, type /advisormode off and pat yourself on the back for a job well done. Unless you didn't.

An Extended Example
/advisormode on
Xyvaskordia's messenger taps his foot impatiently
Xyvaskordia: Help me!
/advice Xyvaskordia With what do you need help?
Xyvaskordia: Harnquist can't understand me!
/advice Xyvaskordia What are you trying to tell him or ask him?
Xyvaskordia: I want a quest!
/advice Xyvaskordia Try typing "Give me a quest."
Xyvaskordia: It worked!
Xyvaskordia: Thanks
Xyvaskordia previously asked "Thanks"
Xyvaskordia: Where can I get a map of Yliakum?
/advice Xyvaskordia I'm sorry, but maps have not yet been implemented. Try asking fellow players for directions. The library sells some maps that you can create yourself, if you want them.
Xyvaskordia: Oh
Xyvaskordia: Thanks
Xyvaskordia previously asked "Thanks"
Xyvaskordia previously asked "Thanks"
Xyvaskordia previously asked "Thanks"
Your session with Xyvaskordia has timed out
/advisormode off

The Tutorial: Allelia
Xyvaskordia: Allelia keeps repeating the phrase 'about x' but she doesn't understand me is there anyone out there help me
/advice Xyvaskordia Try talking to Neave, near the furnace.
Xyvaskordia: I talked to her a while, but she doesn't understand me now either.
/advice Xyvaskordia You need to get the blacksmithing book back from Allelia. Make sure you read what NPCs say carefully.
Xyvaskordia: Allelia won't give it to me.
At this point, you won't be able to help Xyvaskordia, because he ether isn't doing exactly as you say, or the npcs are buggy, or something else is going on. Now it is time to give him advanced help.
/advice Xyvaskordia Try using the Tutorial Walkthrough, on the official forums. Here is the URL: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=30436.0 If that doesn't work, contact a gm, by using '/who game', then using '/tell' to ask them for help. Be very polite and descriptive with them. Good luck!

Tutorial End
Xyvaskordia: The last NPC doesn't understand me
/advice Xyvaskordia Give him the 3 items the other npcs gave you. Right click him, select 'give', then trade them one at a time.
Xyvaskordia: I already did he won't teleport me!?!
/advice Xyvaskordia Did you finish the conversation after giving him the items?
Xyvaskordia: Yes, but it crashed before he teleported me
/advice Xyvaskordia Use '/who game' to find a game master. Then use '/tell' to ask them to teleport you out of the tutorial. Be very polite and descriptive with them. Good luck!

Another Example: Spoilers
Xyvaskordia: Where can I find Jefecra? I need him for a quest.
Giving the exact location of Jefecra is a spoiler, especially because they need him for a quest. If they need an NPC to train a basic skill or stat, you can give them the general location, such as 'Hydlaa Plaza,' or 'Ojaveda,' without saying anything more specific. But never give them locations for quests.
/advice Xyvaskordia Unfortunately, I cannot tell you the location of NPCs. Try talking to the NPC who told you to find Jefecra, and ask where to find him.
Xyvaskordia: Oh, sorry

Bugtracker
The Advising Window isn't complete yet! Check the Bugtracker here to see what is currently being upgraded upon!

[I need to confirm what qualifies advice as a spoiler. I'm not sure. Comments and additions are appreciated.]
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 02:03:48 pm by SerqFeht »
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Rizin

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Re: Advisors, Advising, and Advice
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2008, 01:29:57 am »
Nice read, so far - the red highlight is impossible for me to read without selecting it though.

SerqFeht

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Re: Advisors, Advising, and Advice
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2008, 01:38:04 am »
Fixed. I also included a few more rules and an example.


And now a definition. \\o//
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 01:58:17 am by SerqFeht »
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Beniel

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Re: Advisors, Advising, and Advice
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2008, 01:51:49 am »
The coloured text is much better then the highlights before.

And thanks for writing this guide, it's looking good :)

Caarrie

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Re: Advisors, Advising, and Advice
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2008, 05:52:59 am »
there are changes in the works for the advisor system you might want to read http://www.hydlaa.com/flyspray_upgrade/index.php?do=details&task_id=1334 and update your first post as needed.

SerqFeht

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Re: Advisors, Advising, and Advice
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2008, 10:03:39 am »
Thanks for the link! Most of those will go into mechanics and the GM rule section.

I'm glad the window is being updated. A few sessions have timed out while I was typing some long advice. Is it okay if I wait for this to be released, however? I don't want to confuse anyone that is advising for the first time by including things that haven't yet been implemented.
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Caarrie

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Re: Advisors, Advising, and Advice
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2008, 10:22:00 am »
yes you can wait, just make sure it gets in there so that people dont get confused with the new changes ;)

other releated changes
http://www.hydlaa.com/flyspray_upgrade/index.php?do=details&task_id=1559
http://www.hydlaa.com/flyspray_upgrade/index.php?do=details&task_id=1561

Bragan

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Re: Advisors, Advising, and Advice
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2008, 12:32:24 am »
Wow, that's a great guide. It's nice to see some clarification on what exactly an advising session entails (I'm sometimes not sure whether something I'm about to say is outside the purview of an advisor, which means I usually don't end up saying it).


A clarification on the don't-tell-NPC-locations rule: there's a post here somewhere, I imagine it's in General, naming Allelia as the Hydlaa tout. Since it's been posted in the forums, and not been condemned by a moderator, GM, or developer as being spoilerish, is it ok to direct advisees to her? (Or Brado, if in Ojaveda). In fact, searching the forums for the post, it was made by an associate developer, so I'll assume it's sanctioned. So what's the stand on this, and other cases of "official" OOC knowledge (locations in the FAQ)?

SerqFeht

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Re: Advisors, Advising, and Advice
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2008, 12:43:38 am »
Personally, when I advise, I will direct the seekers directly to the 4 major npcs (Harn, Trasok, Allelia, Brado). I feel this is ok, because you can't really do anything without first talking to them. And when I get questions, such as 'where can I get a pick?' I'll say something like, 'Toda is well known for supplying miners. She owns a shop near to Trasok.' Or something along that format. Again, following my definition, if it is required to play and enjoy the game, it can be spoiled. A new player can't earn much money without mining, and the other ways to make a living as a newbie (begging, leeching guilds, fighting rats for hides) are less than enjoyable. So it fits my criteria.

But I am interested in hearing dev and gm opinions on what qualifies as advisor spoilage, and if I hit their definition or not. But this makes sense to me, at least.
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carua

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Re: Advisors, Advising, and Advice
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2009, 02:47:25 pm »
just wondering if i could clarify what a "spoiler " is exactly?
in a recent session i was asked"can you combine multiple glyph's to give different spells?"
to which i replied "yes, but you would have to be a master magician [20+] to do so"
is this a spoiler ?and was/is it okay to give vague hints towards IC answers?

Caarrie

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Re: Advisors, Advising, and Advice
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2009, 03:15:46 pm »
just wondering if i could clarify what a "spoiler " is exactly?
in a recent session i was asked"can you combine multiple glyph's to give different spells?"
to which i replied "yes, but you would have to be a master magician [20+] to do so"
is this a spoiler ?and was/is it okay to give vague hints towards IC answers?

Yes that is a spoiler, anything that be found out ingame without hurting themselves or loosing items is considered a spoiler, this includes quest info, where npcs are located and other related info.