no climbing anymore? Great :(

[Zan]

They were exploitations of the game mechanics, not possibilities for exploring. Did you seriously expect to be able to keep doing that?

If you're patient, I'm sure they will be replaced with real supported climbing mechanics soon (tm).

[Sen]

Imho this is an example again where a short note of someone (dev?) who knows if it was intended or not would help greatly.
If it was an unintended (and maybe even unknown) side effect of something else the situation is completely different and I at least hope that it would ease the mind of some us who don't like the change.

Btw, it looks like if I jump along a wall or whatever I can get up at least a little higher.

And Im sure it is worth the effort of installing it, also when there are some obstacles 


Sen

#edit#
I looked more at it as a _tolerated_ workaround for a missing feature than an exploit what is a pretty radical (*cough* flame..) position.

[Zan]

Common sense tells anyone that it was never intended that way. We have a climbing skill in-game but this skill was in no way related to this 'ability'. The skill isn't even trainable or activated yet. Secondly jumping higher and higher every time is a very weird way of climbing unless you're Sylvester Stallone or Tom Cruise.

This was obviously a glitch within the collision detection system, which is now fixed.

[ThomPhoenix]

Let me explain this a bit:

What you called climbing, was actually glitching. You were able to reach places you should not be able to. Even with a climbing skill,  you shouldn't have been able to reach those places. You can hardly call it "climbing", it was really glitching. This was possible due to some bugs in the movement and collision code, those bugs were fixed. This also prevented some situations in which you could get horribly stuck.

If you want to climb again, wait for an official climbing skill.

[Kaityra]

Common sense tells anyone that it was never intended that way.

Really? I always considered it a nice feature instead of a bug or glitch as long as we don't have the climbing skill.

We have a climbing skill in-game but this skill was in no way related to this 'ability'. The skill isn't even trainable or activated yet.

So we don't have this skill in fact and it can't be considered to be in the game.

changes like these make me really wonder about the overall development plan for Planeshift

I in fact highly doubt the devs were aiming at getting rid of people climbing on top of roofs at any time.. -.-

I don't think that you got my point here. I think that there are far more important things to implement then to change things that already have a (temporary) working solution, e.g. "/unstick" or skins for Enkidukai. If you have limited resources you should use them where it matters and not "waste" them on "cosmetic changes".

If you want to climb again, wait for an official climbing skill.

If they had introduced the climbing skill first before removing the "bug/glitch" it would have been a totally different matter.

[Dajoji]

(...)I don't think that you got my point here. I think that there are far more important things to implement then to change things that already have a (temporary) working solution, e.g. "/unstick" or skins for Enkidukai. If you have limited resources you should use them where it matters and not "waste" them on "cosmetic changes"(...).

Determining what matters and what doesn't when you do not have access to all the information is a double-edged sword. What matters to a player may have no significance if you look at the bigger picture.

If you want to climb again, wait for an official climbing skill.

If they had introduced the climbing skill first before removing the "bug/glitch" it would have been a totally different matter.

But then we'd hear someone say: "Why did you introduce climbing when there are other more important things you should do! Stop wasting your time and start working on things that matter!"

Players need to understand that bugs have to be fixed. Whether it's a big bug, a small bug, a nice bug, or a horrible one, they all have to go. In that sense, if you can fix a bug now, you do it because you know others will come. The priority is to eliminate them all. Otherwise they will keep piling up.

Things are bound to change, for both better and worse, before the game is ready to hit the v.1 mark, at which point "better" should be the standard. This means you will lose some things and gain others.

Don't take it so seriously. You'll be wiped anyways...

[neko kyouran]

Players also have to remember that there are many different types of people working around the clock on PS.  The 3D modelers aren't going to know how to fix a server crash.  So they are going to do what they know how to do and make models.  Same with the 2D artists, the DB team, the engine devs, etc., etc. 

It's just some things, like server crashes, and glitch fixings, take more time than say, making a new item, like some furniture pieces for a guild house interior, so different things, get finished at different paces.

[RichardShru]

Personally, I was just starting to get into climbing when it was removed. It was definantly a fun and intresting pass-time for me, and I certainly hope the dev's will acount the intrest many of us shared with the "buggy climbing" feature. I do have to say though the newest release of PS in general has certainly caused me more problems then the last. I had only used /unstick a total of 5 times in the past two months I've been playing the previous release. In the last few dused unstick 9 times. This is rather sad if you ask me. Also, the ladders are now  unclimbable (if that's even a word) for me. I tried going to the top of Hydlaa Temple's Tower twice, and both times I ended up dying er "jumping" up the ladder, I would be thrown off by some weird bug and fall to the ground and die. In short, if absolutely nothing else, just bring back the buggy climbing. Don't make PS a Runescape with better graphics.

[Morla Phlint]

I don't know where this thread will end up as I see people stating their opinions and not really trying to see the point of the other person. There's not only black and white.

First, I want to ask you to respect the work of the devs. These are not just cosmetic changes in my opinion. I'm sure they didn't intend to remove climbing but to decrease the number of people getting stuck (a considerable part of the questions in the help channel are related to this after all). It didn't turn out perfect as we can see from the ladders in DR but they are trying and success usually doesn't come with the first try. Also about the new fenki skin: I think it's great. I understand Mrokii, however, and think there should have been a possibility for the already existing chars to keep the old skin or to switch to the new one. And then again: these are *not* just cosmetic changes. The devs can work on the more important things first and leave as to get totally bored out of our skin. However, they take the time to make these "small changes" and bring colour into our lives. Yes, small changes, but think about how much time and effort are invested in that fenki skin for example...

Second, it makes me sad to hear people shouting "Exploiters! You got what you deserved!". I agree with ThomPhoenix, it was actually glitching... and it was fun, it made the game different, now it's gone. Happens all the time in real life too: losing things. It hurts but that's the way life is.

I won't say "Bring it back!". But I'll say again: we lost a part of our freedom. And everybody will have to find a way to live with that.

[Kaityra]

Determining what matters and what doesn't when you do not have access to all the information is a double-edged sword. What matters to a player may have no significance if you look at the bigger picture.

I doubt that there is one single person who has all the information. It is always a double-edged sword as it is always subjective. I work as a software developer so I know that just following your own plans without discussing with the customer can quickly lead to a dead end. And the "customer" would be the players in the case of Planeshift. Or are the devs do the work just for themselves? I don't think so. The players can tell you how the game looks on the "outside" while a developer has the insight on the "inside". And as a player I can tell you how "incomplete" this game looks on the "outside" compared to other games on the market. Why not finish something first before opening up a new barrel? Let's take lockpicking as just one example. It has been in the game for how long? Are we able to use it in the game? Or the quarterstaff...why not finish this "project" by letting it drop by suitable mob and introduce the polearm-skill? Or making armour...I mean we have the armour, we have the materials, all we lack is the skill. I would guess that closing this "gap" would have been easier than introducing cooking/baking, with whole new resources and tools? Or take the missing models for the player races. Why introducing new animals while this important part is not finished? I'm aware that models for player races are more complex but it is "more complex" and not "completely different", isn't it? These are just examples and I hope that I was able to state what I mean with "it looks incomplete".

But then we'd hear someone say: "Why did you introduce climbing when there are other more important things you should do! Stop wasting your time and start working on things that matter!"

Yeah, I would have probably said that even though I have a character that would be very glad about that skill. But on the other hand I wouldn't have touched the climbing like it was, either. I used it quite frequently as it was part of my character and I didn't have to use "/unstick" that often. I really wonder why others had such a problem with it.

Players need to understand that bugs have to be fixed. Whether it's a big bug, a small bug, a nice bug, or a horrible one, they all have to go. In that sense, if you can fix a bug now, you do it because you know others will come. The priority is to eliminate them all. Otherwise they will keep piling up.

As a software developer I understand but if there is a working solution (e.g. "/unstick"), then you take on something else first. On a real market, where you would have to sell your software, your approach would fail because you would not be able to meet the deadlines. You have a little bit more freedom with Planeshift but believe it or not, there is even a deadline there.

Don't take it so seriously. You'll be wiped anyways...

Oh, I don't have a problem with that as long as it is everybody who get's wiped.

[neko kyouran]

welp, I let this go, but I see this has degraded into the same old discussion on why something gets done before something else, and no matter how many times it's explained, some people don't get it, so lock.

edit:

so since RichardShru asked so nicely in a PM to me, I've agreed to unlock it so they can try to salvage the discussion.  Here yeah go rich, post away.

[RichardShru]

Well, before I start disscussing the issue again, I just wanted to thank neko kyouran for unlocking the thread. Thanks 

Ok, now I am one of the newer players to PS, so I don't know how much credibility I have on subjects concerning the development of PS anthe course of the games future. However, in the game, climbing (although unofficial) was entertaining due to the fact that unlike most other aspects of RPG's, climbing in this game required a certain level of coordination and skill to manage. However, it still remained something that everyone could learn to do. It gave way to exploring areas of the game world that were once unreachable, and most importantly, it was fun. It was unique and completely orignal from any other feature in other mmo's. I e played several mmo's similar to PS, but even PS always stood out. Because of features like climbing, the game became more appealing to me. Now that I have posted my opinions on the matter, I open the debate up to any other's who have something to say on the issue. I only ayou remain civil, and only talk about climbing (in short, stay on topic!)

[Birot]

Yes thanks Neko for not locking it, i have another example of what i used climbing for, every night before i logged off i would climb some where out of the main view set up a little camp and me and the wife would log out there, so now that climbing isnt part of the game i guess will we have to set up camp in the middle of the road or middle of the mine or somewhere else people will be walking all over that seems ridiculous considering we like to put out a little food some flowers and what nots, i so now i can see arguments developing over being in the way or matbe being a zombie just sitting in road but in fact im RPing with my wife, sometimes my guild or friends, so how is this a good thing for this game

I will say again BRING BACK CLIMBING , [or the glitch which some of you say it was, makes no since thats what you call it i see a hill in RL i dont look at it and go it would be nice to climb but but i cant]

[Eletiy]

they certainly won't bring back climbing just because a part of the community wants that, this bugfix is a huge improvment and as far as I know it also helps to prevent NPC's getting in stuck. Looking back from two and a half years PS now I can say that it was always like that, some funny new bugs come... some old ones go. You can be pretty sure that there will be new bugs, maybe this release or the next one.. and there are also many gaps in those invisible walls around the maps.. you still can "explore" the world.  The places you can't reach anymore are now legends and you can tell tales about them.
So better see it as a chance for you to find new bugs! [Certainly don't forget to report them as well ]

[Mrokii]

Determining what matters and what doesn't when you do not have access to all the information is a double-edged sword. What matters to a player may have no significance if you look at the bigger picture.

And that is part of the problem. I feel like handled a bit like like a baby who doesn't deserve to get the bigger picture. Is it really *that* difficult to give the players a small insight on the bigger plan? Like, what things have the highest priority for example, or, in this case, if we can expect to see the climbing-skill implemented soon?

And another thing, someone pointed out: Even *if* it will be, it won't be the same. As climbing as we had until recently was something that depended on the players ability alone, it was a challenge that not everybody wanted to take and therefore it was something special. With a climbing-skill this will change. The important thing won't be the players ability anymore but tria and ppoints. Ultimately, it will be a lot more boring than before.
And consider this: The ability to climb where others could not lead to making it part of the roleplay for others, i.e. a character that is too scared to sleep in the streets and therefore climbs onto a tree. It added a lot to roleplay for many.

I understand that it is considered a kind of bug that has been removed so to say. But devs should at least be aware of the fact that with taking this ability away (intended or not) they took away an integral part of the roleplay of some people and that without providing anything in exchange. Not even giving the players the hope that they might be able to climb again by using the skill.