New register pages

[Gothi[c]]

some way to separate out the navigation menu into a separate html file that can be included in each page?

For the new design we currently have the menu in it's own php file so we can just include it on whatever page we want without having to copy/paste it or rewrite it. Which is handy because there is only one single place to make menu changes and they will be consistent throughout all pages.

However, on the end-user end, to the browser it still comes out as one single page, so there is no bandwidth gained by this. That's the one and single advantage that frames had, but the disadvantages far outweigh the advantage, and especially now in modern times, now that broadband is more widespread, clarity and quality of code is far more important.

It would seem to be more efficient to do this than to include the same html code (6KB!) in every page

There was a time in the past when you would even remove all spaces and linebreaks from the html output just to save a few KB of bandwidth. That is rarely if ever done anymore. The few KB's gained would pale in comparison with the images and graphics downloaded, making it hardly seem worth the effort.

The average page download size has tripled in the past 5 years, and I think the ps register page is very slim compared to many modern websites.

[Eliseth]

Good job Gothi[c] and Caarie, the register page has been bothering me for a while now. I like uniform when it comes to websites. It looks great now!

It would seem to be more efficient to do this than to include the same html code (6KB!) in every page

There was a time in the past when you would even remove all spaces and linebreaks from the html output just to save a few KB of bandwidth. That is rarely if ever done anymore. The few KB's gained would pale in comparison with the images and graphics downloaded, making it hardly seem worth the effort.

The average page download size has tripled in the past 5 years, and I think the ps register page is very slim compared to many modern websites.

I think what he meant is that it would be more efficient for you as a coder. In other words if a page is created, you wouldn't have to change each page to put in the new menu item, you could just change the external menu page. I hope I got that right.

Anyway, still good job

[Prolix]

Ah, I could not tell if you were using PHP for those particular pages or not as the link was just a directory. I added index.html to it to see and it looked the same. PHP has been known to have its own problems but I wouldn't let that stop me from using it. It does create more work for the server, though.

I was not talking about efficient for the coder really although it is a good point. It just seemed to me that for a project run on a shoe string you might like to save money where you can. I have no idea what kind of hosting deal Talad might have for planeshift.it and the fragnetics site is donated but here is my thinking: Pulling numbers out of my hat, say the site gets 5000 viewers per day averaging 5 pages per visit. That works out to 5000*5*6KB=150MB more or less. Now that may not seem like much but that is 4.5 GB/month and with no copies of the game downloaded or players in the game. If you have the system I suggested that number is reduced fivefold as the 6KB is downloaded only once for each user. I have no idea if the 5000 users/day is anywhere near accurate I suspect it is actually fairly high. I do think that it would be low if the project was as popular as might be liked.

Still do not take this as anything more than a theoretical discussion.

As for "The average page download size has tripled in the past 5 years" bloat for bloat's sake is not good practice. This can be caused by all the newbies getting on board publishing their pages with microsoft office or some other inappropriate tool as well as increased multimedia content. Good page design has not changed and efficiencies of coding save money. It is all about the number of bits you throw at the web.

[Nikodemus]

you people are always too optimistic ;P
The bottom copyrights bar is moved 1 px right

Gothi[c], have you thought about css for input elements?

[Caarrie]

The bottom copyrights bar is moved 1 px right

Only in ie that i have seen, in FF3 opera safari and konq it is lined up perfectly.

[Nikodemus]

* Nikodemus watches as Caarie steps right into his ego.

So that means i must be using IE?

The layout is a mess to be honest. Parent elements has its own positioning in different units than its children. While there is set additional positioning for children of positioned parents, what simply overwrites the previous positioning AFAIK.
Horizontal bar if you make window too thin, while there is still room for displaying page entirelly.

In half a year another browser version comes out and it will again interpret differently.

I wish designing websides for multiple browsers was easy, but there are things you don't do, even if possible, because in the end you are simply guessing and testing how much do you have to move an element, so it looks ok, but ultimatelly not everywhere.

Anyone asking for rewriting?

[Caarrie]

Anyone asking for rewriting?

It was just rewritten and asking for that again is rude and an insult to the guy that spent hours working on fixing it. If you want it fixed then go ahead and try but i dont gurantee that ps would accept it.

[Eliseth]

Quite frankly, I doubt the majority or people will even notice it and if they do, they probably won't be thinking "Oh dear, how unprofessional, I better not play this game" Fact is it's already a major improvement on the last registration form and I think it's good enough considering that it looks fine on some of the more popular web browsers (IE users can suffer  ).

[Nikodemus]

Caarrie, did he authorize you to speak in his name?
Before you call someone rude maybe think what you are doing yourself.

If you want it fixed then go ahead and try but i dont gurantee that ps would accept it.

I had already known that, that's why the question.


I agree Eliseth. I'm just pointing out faults and i'm suprised by rection of some people.

[Eliseth]

I'm sure once Gothi[c] reads this he'd be willing to take a look at his code if it's necessary. Let's not start start flaming each other, this is a thread bringing good news remember?

[Caarrie]

Caarrie, did he authorize you to speak in his name?
Before you call someone rude maybe think what you are doing yourself.

If you want it fixed then go ahead and try but i dont gurantee that ps would accept it.

I had already known that, that's why the question.


I agree Eliseth. I'm just pointing out faults and i'm suprised by rection of some people.

I worked one on one with gothi[c] on this, and we tested all browsers we had access to. I will not go any further as this is not the purpose of this thread, atleast the site looks better. Just so you know gothi[c] took his time to work on this with no gurantee that it would be accepted either.

[Gothi[c]]

Hi folks

I'm glad to see my crystal ball was correct and that this thread has evolved in what I expected it to evolve into

Yes, I know it's not perfect, so I expected all the above. But I didn't feel like re-doing the art to make a cleaner and more flexible dynamic design. I merely refactored the old pages, which were quite horrible into something remotely acceptable. The thing could do with a complete rewrite, but that would take a lot more time.

Ah, I could not tell if you were using PHP for those particular pages or not as the link was just a directory. I added index.html to it to see and it looked the same.  PHP has been known to have its own problems  but I wouldn't let that stop me from using it. It does create more work for the server, though.

Heh. Good luck inserting database records with pure html Not to say we couldn't use perl or something other than php, but definitively not bare html Yes, php has had vulnerabilities, so did Apache, The Linux and Windows kernel, and pretty much any other application out there... I'm not sure what the point is you're making.. That is just a matter of keeping up with updates and patches, which is not my job, as far as I know that's up to the people at fragnetics.
The most important thing fixed in the new design was some various security problems in the old design actually. I think that's far more important than any design issue.

If you're up for rewriting it from scratch, be my guest. The pages are in the www folder on svn, send the end result to Caarrie or Xordan. 

[Prolix]

Thank you for pointing me to the source. I do have one question further. I see that menu.php is essentially what I suggested it should be. The question I have is that by giving it the php extension does it all have to be parsed by the php interpreter and if so would giving it the html extension save any trouble by only having the single php expression sent to he interpreter? Or am I splitting kran hair here?

As with any server-side scripting language it is impossible to see the source from the result. If you had pointed me in the right direction initially some of my comments would have been avoided. I should have realized there was more than I could see anyway.

[Nikodemus]

I don't know why anyone would need to look for the php code. All one need is client side rendered site and a browser supporting user styles.

You have been working this way Gothic? Caarrie?

[Caarrie]

You have been working this way Gothic? Caarrie?

nope we worked with the official source and modified it, some of it did require more then just css changes to get it to this stage.