My Critique To PlaneShift

[Sangwa]

I've decided to give my insight to the PlaneShift project's current situation after having played it for enough time (5 years) to comprehend lightly the community, the game rules and the developing body. So, here are a few points that together constitute my critique to this game:

• This game has a good role play environment. However role playing does not need to be consistent (there's no moderation to guarantee such) and so all quality role play is diluted in plots that include concepts that disrespect the settings;
• The game is good as far as interaction with the settings is concerned, but it's very poor as far as Player-Player interaction is concerned. The problem is that players end up not being able to use the rich information obtained in quests amongst themselves (if you try to role play that your character has fixed a poem for a kran that was needing it, another character will tell you that he did the same thing. Why would the Kran need that many equal poems?);
• The game has no plot. GM Events don't seem to point towards a plot-line, or if they do, it's not clear and most players remain ignorant to it. These events still work much like Hack n Slash fashion, where players are a homogeneous mass that pokes around until the only possible route to success is achieved and everyone is rewarded;
• The game's economy is ridiculous, because you just need to do a dull-witted action (mining; which involves only moving around and typing "/dig platinium") to get money, making all other activities ridiculous as far as getting income is concerned (you can't get a market for most stuff, because if you want money you just need to mine plat;)
• The progression system is moronic, because it actually requires you to either mine or fight in order to train anything, yes, even magic, intelligence, etc;
• The game develops slowly. Models seem like they need to be blessed before they come out, game mechanics remain ridiculous for years (like the progression system), etc.;
• If you ask the developing team where the game is headed (since you want to know if you'll stick around this alpha game or not) they won't answer. I don't know it if it's because they don't actually have a strategy set out, or if they are completely silly to the point of actually thinking it's fun to ignore if this game is actually going to be a MMORPG or just a prettier hack n slash. This includes questions like "Are you considering to keep this? Are you considering to implement this? Are you considering to change that?";
• Plenty of times the Game Moderators and Developers represent the team themselves, often having no capacity to lead a public speech and ending up offending players and consequently insulting the team itself;
• There is not an assumed player concept so people confuse themselves placing themselves in categories they believe should be respected ("Hard-Core Roleplayer"; "Role player" and "Player") while its obvious that all players are alike and that they should be an homogeneous class with the same rights and duties (role playing being an obvious duty in a role play game);
• The most efficient and most widely shared "underground" concept of consistent role playing (underground, since it's not supported by the developers or moderators in any way, because there is not a notion of what consistent role playing is in PlaneShift) includes ignoring parts of the game system. That's right. If you go in-game and meet players who are either used to role playing or who are widely (community wise, of course) considered to be consistent role players you'll notice that they ignore some game mechanics (the fighting system for example), rather than using them in their play. This obviously creates sources of tension between players that rightfully want to make use of the game mechanics. Everyone has probably given their opinion as to why they do what they do, but they won't know if the developers are actually going to do anything about it;
• A great deal of the game focuses on love between characters (monogamy, character creation choices, etc.) and a part of the settings itself seems like an excuse to have "love" be transversal between characters in the way it happens in real life. Races can breed with each other, despite being completely different species, and even Krans (assexual beings) can marry;
• Another one of these "obvious excuses for getting more players" is a rule that demands everyone to be able to fight and fend for themselves (an excuse to explore hack n slash mechanics) including scholars, priests and farmers;
• If characters can interbreed casually between each other, despite their "race", and if there is no racism, and if a character can be born in an enkidukai village despite being a klyros and if max stats, stat progression, etc, does not change between "races"... We have different models with different names and different mannerisms and one single race;
• The NPC dialogue system is silly. I've heard people claim it allows for more "immersion" and that it's a "firewall against non-role players", but I disagree (since I don't even consider those two objectives of the PlaneShift Team). You're playing a game and you don't want to be bothered. If your character has its own speech, the NPC's will never understand it. You need to word it in a standard, robotic way, much like would happen if you were to use any other NPC dialogue system. So why do we need the extra bother?

PlaneShift has been for a long while my favourite (almost) MMORPG and I consider it to have the best, wider role play environment in all the other similar games I've played. I enjoy its community thoroughly as well. This is just a critique and I obviously didn't include the positive aspects (like good game moderation concepts [despite consistency not being checked], innovative setting, semi-player-oriented progression, etc.) because I don't need developers to do anything about those particular things. I think it's obvious, common sense and already discussed material what can fix all these issues I've presented.
I consider "Consistent Role Playing" role playing that respects the settings, the game mechanics and the players (example a character that is a son of a vigesimi is consistent, a character that is a son of an octarch isn't [there isn't that option in the character creation menu and there's only one Octarch, so the amount of sons he'd have is limited and the power it has for being such is unfair and as such players shouldn't abuse it]).

EDIT to add last point.

[ThomPhoenix]

Je sais, je sais.

[Zan]

• The most efficient and most widely shared "underground" concept of consistent role playing (underground, since it's not supported by the developers or moderators in any way, because there is not a notion of what consistent role playing is in PlaneShift) includes ignoring parts of the game system. That's right. If you go in-game and meet players who are either used to role playing or who are widely (community wise, of course) considered to be consistent role players you'll notice that they ignore some game mechanics (the fighting system for example), rather than using them in their play. This obviously creates sources of tension between players that rightfully want to make use of the game mechanics. Everyone has probably given their opinion as to why they do what they do, but they won't know if the developers are actually going to do anything about it;

That is probably one of the more essential points of your whole critique. Until the game's mechanics can suit the roleplayer's need for diversity instead of a grind based system there will always be a gap between RP and leveling.

In my opinion both the RP community and the developers could make a greater effort to level the field in this area. Since I'm sure the devs have heard everything they're doing 'wrong' on numerous occasions I'll focus on us here for a moment.

What can we as the community do to make sure the mechanics connect with our roleplay more?

The answer is obvious but apparently not so easy. Start using the mechanics in our roleplay. Here I'm thinking of the most 'in-my-face' neglect of our community: mage characters. How many of you who have magic wielding characters have RPed a spell or magic ability that doesn't exist within the mechanics? I think it's pretty safe to assume that about 90% have .. without even having to take a poll. So is it really that hard to stick to the spells that the Developers create for us? Do we really have to shoot bolts of lightning across hundreds of meters or enslave people's minds with an evil stare? :P Personally I've only rarely played a mage but I found it fun and challenging to limit myself to spells he actually has the glyphs for. Especially when the RP is enriched by actually casting those spells at eachother.

Sure you can't work out your deepest fantasies in every detail but sticking to the rules (read: mechanics) avoids things of getting out of hand, people accusing eachother of godmodding and whatnot.

So why not use some game mechanics more often in our roleplay? Especially when the mechanics are decently developed, which is the case with the magic system for example .. when seen separate from the overpowered combat system and ignoring temporary bugs.

[Sangwa]

I agree with using the game mechanics where they exist and trying to stick to them. Complementing should happen only when there's no other choice (i.e. if you want to be a bowman) and then, everything you do as a bowman should be agreed upon by the other players which are affect by this "complementing."
What I don't agree to is role playing fight outcomes when you have a fighting system that does that for you. Sure, after the system has thrown the dice you might want to compensate the lack of artistic fighting (since the models aren't that flexible) with a detailed, written version of what happened. Well, fighting becomes a sad example because of all the problems surrounding it. It's like what you said.

The problem is that this type of concepts aren't motivated or supported by the PlaneShift Team. If they were, players would feel a responsibility towards it and the community could work on it with more effort, probably resulting in grander results.

[Dajoji]

Interesting points. You might be able to help change things if you applied to the Settings team or the GM team. That also would give you relative access to what the planned direction of the game is.

[Donari Tyndale]

Why not invite the whole DE into settings?  Oh, they seem to be XD Anyway, I fully agree with Zan.

[Bubba]

I was going to post this in the Complaints Forum, but I thought it might do just as well here, seeing as the last few comments have touched upon the subject of my own.

First off: I think PlaneShift is great. Congratulations to everyone who has worked on it. With that being said, I see lots of room for improvement.

In my opinion, the most glaring defect in the overall development strategy is a lack of clear communication and mutual cooperation in the community which leads to a split between the development team and the player group. As I see it, the development team is trying to manage PS as though it were a finished product, probably in the belief that such behavior is in the best interests of the player community. In my opinion, this is an extremely counterproductive position.

Everyone who downloads PS is a potential tester. Yet they are not being recognized as such. They are neither given sufficient documentation to do the job of testing, nor are they given direction or task lists to help with the project. They are kept largely in the dark regarding what goes on 'behind the curtain', and a result, their feedback ranges from inadvertently useful to a complete waste of time for those who bother to reply to it.

Why is the general player base being alienated from the process of participating in the development of the game? Why isn’t more being done to gather information from players? Why isn’t the potential represented by the player community towards moving the project ahead being maximized? Why is the development of the project being hidden behind closed doors when this is supposed to be a community effort? Why aren’t specific project lists being made public with suggestions as to how players can help? Why isn’t active recruiting going on for members to help with specific development-related tasks?

I know there is a bug-tracker database. But as far as I can tell, players are invited to send in information related to any bug they detect from anywhere in the game. Doesn’t that seem rather undirected and perhaps even counterproductive? Why aren’t we focusing on specific areas as a group and working in concert to attain bug-free zones and then slowly expanding them? Why aren’t we actively requesting that ideas and possible solutions for current problems or areas of development be sent in for review?

As a long-time member of other open-source volunteer projects, I have witnessed first-hand that those projects which have strategies encouraging initiative among users, viewing them all as potential contributors, are the most successful ones. Those that put restrictions upon knowledge regarding the project, upon who can contribute, when and in what form either fail generally or stagnate to the point of becoming non-growth enterprises.

I would love to help with this project in any way I could, but I don’t feel qualified for any of the positions being offered in the development team. I think many others feel the same way. I am a fairly creative person, and I’m full of ideas. I’m also willing to learn new skills if it means helping the project. But I just don’t see any open channels for interacting with the development team in an efficient and productive manner.

I would like to see more effort go into:

• Maintenance of the forum. Forum maintenance is vital for a project like this. Old threads need to be gone through, their valuable information collected, and then deleted. More how-to’s need to be posted and then kept up to date.
  
  
• Coordinating community involvement. Having 10 people testing the same area or NPC at the same time has to be better than having 10 people testing 10 different areas. Create a section of the forum where this kind of information is readily available to people so they can participate in improving PS.
  
  
• Inviting community participation. Instead of letting people post their wishes 'blind', it would seem more efficient to let people comment and make suggestions on specific areas of development which are currently being considered by the development team. Use the player community as a source for ideas and suggestions at the appropriate time.
  
  
• Discarding the notion of "spoilers". I know this is a touchy subject for the development team, but frankly, the idea of there even being such a thing as "spoilers" for a game in development is counterproductive. Testers cannot do their job unless they have all the information they need. In this phase of the project, that information which could be considered subject to "spoiling", e.g. the quests, is really secondary. The primary issue is making sure that the mechanical side of the game really works and is bug-free. Once that is established, then secrecy is called for during the creation of new quests which build upon the tried and true mechanical base. As it stands, I think "spoilers" should be available to anyone willing to work as a tester.
  

[freeharte]

• Discarding the notion of "spoilers". I know this is a touchy subject for the development team, but frankly, the idea of there even being such a thing as "spoilers" for a game in development is counterproductive. Testers cannot do their job unless they have all the information they need. In this phase of the project, that information which could be considered subject to "spoiling", e.g. the quests, is really secondary. The primary issue is making sure that the mechanical side of the game really works and is bug-free. Once that is established, then secrecy is called for during the creation of new quests which build upon the tried and true mechanical base. As it stands, I think "spoilers" should be available to anyone willing to work as a tester.
  

Well, I'd hate to have "spoilers" revealed publicly, because I really enjoy working these things out for myself.  One possibility, assuming this forum software allows it, would be to have a "spoiler-allowed test section" in this forum, open for read/post only to those who enroll as "alpha test helpers," and who "sign" an agreement to confine spoilers to that section.

[neko kyouran]

The official testing team members have their own subsection of the forums, much like the dev, moderating, and GM teams do.  They are free to post what ever info they feel they need to in order to fulfill their rolls as official game testers, which includes spoiler information, in that section and only them and the devs and the global moderators can view it. 

Consider it wish granted.

[ThomPhoenix]

If you want to properly test PlaneShift, show it by having a look at the BugTracker. Look at some unconfirmed bugs, and see if you can confirm them. Compile your own client with the very latest PlaneShift code by looking here. You can even start writing some small patches to bugs if you want, and submit them to a developer for review. Various PS'ers do that frequently, and we're grateful for that. And when/if you feel you're up to it, you can even apply to the Testing Team by finding Lanarel on IRC or by PM'ing him, giving you access to even more resources to help make PlaneShift more stable.

We can always use more members, so bubba

[Caarrie]

I know there is a bug-tracker database. But as far as I can tell, players are invited to send in information related to any bug they detect from anywhere in the game. Doesn’t that seem rather undirected and perhaps even counterproductive? Why aren’t we focusing on specific areas as a group and working in concert to attain bug-free zones and then slowly expanding them? Why aren’t we actively requesting that ideas and possible solutions for current problems or areas of development be sent in for review?

There is no way to assign people to specific area to look for bugs as we dont know where they are to look for them. If we knew then the devs would know what to fix already. yes there are many bugs but unless you are a dev or know how to code nothing can be done about them. Remember even though as a player you are called a "tester" you are still a player the testing team [official] has their own needs that are not going to be posted publically. you want to help build a client and go from there. otherwise there is not much that you can do. You can ask for things to be done but unless you can do it, the request will sit and wait for someone to get to it. Remember the testing team has things they do on a daily and weekly basis to try to make this game better. Do your part and report ALL bugs you find so they can get fixed.

[Kaerli]

The biggest problem I have with PS is the rather stratified organization of the development team and some of the "turf wars" that break out because of it (such as the "Devs shouldn't try to reproduce bugs" crud that shows up in IRC every now and then).  Also, there's issues with old code that nobody wants to touch and some wackiness with getting art submitted...(in particular, I think that item modelling would be a ton easier if you DCC people were willing to learn some tricks from your CAD brethen...but noooo)

Finally, there's the issue of Rules being not only private, but "spoiler-status" I guess?  I understand the concerns about someone fragmenting the community with another server, but I honestly think that would be less likely to occur with an open rulebase...(consider that ANYTHING can be REd)

[Dreamcrafter]

• The game is good as far as interaction with the settings is concerned, but it's very poor as far as Player-Player interaction is concerned. The problem is that players end up not being able to use the rich information obtained in quests amongst themselves (if you try to role play that your character has fixed a poem for a kran that was needing it, another character will tell you that he did the same thing. Why would the Kran need that many equal poems?);

For me I think the core of the issue always comes back to the players.  There are two big questions here:  1) what are the players empowered to do by the staff?  2) what are the players doing for themselves and each other?

Question 1, I will admit, can be a bit murky at times.  In terms of RP, it's very unlikely (for example) that magic is limited to the very cookie-cutter effects of -any- coded spell system.  Rather, I would think one can assume that having a given glyph that creates a given effect could reasonably (in terms of non-combat RP) be used to create different (yet similar) effects.   For example, if you have the 'Mind' glyph and can do <blank> with it, it might also let you engage in other non-coded, RP-based actions.  However, I don't really know what the leeway is for players in this regard.  I'm not sure anyone really does, as there are no official spell lists or the like.  (This is why most tabletop RPGs have whole books dedicated to their magic systems--there's a -lot- to be said.  I'm not suggesting that the Devs should do that here; rather, a few general guidelines about such things would be helpful.)

Question 2, though, is quite clear.  Players can play, treat things IC, and generally foster a better RP environment.  This does not depend on the GMs, the Devs, or anyone other than us--the players.  PlaneShift isn't 100% functional, no, but it works just fine for conducting IC activities with one's characters and interacting based on whatever premise we have.  If we've read the settings and done our best to adhere to them, then until we are given more specific guidelines (as per my Question 1), we should frankly just get out there and enjoy ourselves in RP.  As this game is a work in progress, I see no reason why the Devs/GMs/etc. can't inform us if we're seen to be "doing it wrong"; until then, the only people we can blame for a lack of RP are ourselves.  I've been involved with MU*s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSH) for over ten years, and for most of that time I've been an admin or running one of my own.  Players often complain of a lack of "things to do," but the truth is that we have as much power to generate interesting stories for ourselves and for each other as any of the GMs do.

Ahem.  Those points made, I think there are plenty of great RPers here, and I fully appreciate and support the efforts of the Devs, GMs, and others working on this project!  Lovin' it a lot, everyone.

I would love to help with this project in any way I could, but I don’t feel qualified for any of the positions being offered in the development team. I think many others feel the same way. I am a fairly creative person, and I’m full of ideas. I’m also willing to learn new skills if it means helping the project. But I just don’t see any open channels for interacting with the development team in an efficient and productive manner.

The bugtracker really does seem like a decent way to do this, at least as well as can be managed.  I only started using it last night, but it really does seem like a good idea and a good way to keep on top of what needs to be examined.  It sounds like you might want to consider hooking up with the official testers, perhaps... I don't know exactly how all that works, but I certainly see your point.  Sometimes you really want to help, but just don't know how to do it.  :/



A general note on all these points might be, as Bubba points out, that we could really have better communication about some things.  I mean the players as much as (or more than, in some respects) the Devs/GMs.  We could work on creating RP, for example, that doesn't just center on the dramatic elements of our characters' lives, but that instead is designed to be inclusive and draw other people in to our stories.  I think we can all find ways to improve the experience for ourselves and everyone if we give it a try.

Cooperative RP--it's like magic! :sorcerer:

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Anyone who says we either don't listen or aren't working off of information gleaned from the players is on the crack.

Anyone of the opinionated folk here is welcomed to join the team and earn that "inside view" in proportion to their contributions at any time.

We often take people who do not have extensive background in a given field and teach them over time.

Bubba should join settings.

Sangwa should cut out the backseat driving and take the wheel.

We have heard all of this before, join the team, break the cycle.

[Mathy Stockington]

We have heard all of this before, join the team, break the cycle.

If you have heard it all before isn't your job to break the cycle Xillix? Or a better question should be if you have heard it all before why haven't you done anything about it?