IC baddies vs OOC goodies

[Gohra]

The main problem is, that the "bad" always want to win with their crimes, and also the "good" want to be the winning hero. Good RP should allow both sides to win, without the looser get so angry, that he changes his reactions to OOC.

How this can be possible?
1. Communicate with your RP enemy, how far you can go. (if he would fight or not; or if he want to play at moment)
2. Why always killing? (With the new duel sytem you can defeat an enemy, so that he falls down by his critical injuries; On this Way, he hasn't to go the annoying Way through DR, Dakkru Curse and Way back, looses with bad wounds but not became angry oocly. This would be some kind of friendly "Bad RP")
3. Ignore "good guys", who ignores barrikades etc. Keep on mind, that unlikely not every PSler running through the world for RPing, so play with these, who are as enthusiastic as you in RP. RPing with respect and keep ICly without annoyin OOCly

Personnaly, I think, that involving of friends, who aren't in area, isn't belong to the origin RP and should not used. In my point of view, i think there are more baddies than goodies dealing with RP. Better, most "Bad guilds" are real RP guilds, real "Good guilds" are rare because most guilds are just chatgroups, but thats only my experience. Nethertheless, i had some good "bad RPs" yet, without big disadvantages for th "looser", so these are able without OOCly angrys and fair. And the last wisdom of the day: "Don't think about, what the others do wrong, think about, what you can do better" For the good and bad guys.

[Bamko]

Happybluelizard, I disagree with everything you just said. Quality over quantity, and no one ever said players of "good" characters were the only ones at fault.

Raa, I re-read Happybluelizard again... and while I usually agree with a lot you say.. I am confused.  Maybe I am missing something?
(besides the name... I will refer to them as HBL for clarity and brevity)

HBL starts with a question, which do you prefer, option A or option B.
HBL then says they agree that you should read one's description and act accordingly.  (see sidebar below)
HBL then points out that some baddies do it too, (do you disagree with that too, since you "disagree with everything you just said"?)
HBL then points out that we should educate people about RPing, rather than getting upset. and then closes with a "in my opinion" conclusion.

I do not see what exactly is the "everything" you disagree with, though HBL does seem to be talking more about events, (group, guild and gm?) while you might be talking about individual interaction?  But again, as HBL states:

If you want a lot of players involved in your rp, don't complain about the use of chats to bring others in!! Instead, focus your energies on finding a way to educate players about the more basic rules of roleplaying - in my opinion, that would make your naughty adventures more enjoyable for yourself.

(meaning, logically speaking, If you do not want a lot of players involved in your RP. then the rest of the statement is not applicable. 

If you are thirsty, you should get something to drink.  so if you are not thirsty does not lead to any conclusion.  it does not mean you should nor does it mean you should not get something to drink.

Now for sidebar, see above)

(sidebar, I disagree on being required to read everyone description.  If you approach me from behind, I will not have had a good look at you, and besides, most descriptions are really life stories and more OOC than the labels.  If one was in a guild, they might wear something (ring, badge, gang colors) that would identify their guild, and may even have other means of identification, but I have yet to see someone IRL who had 4000 words tattooed on their forehead about everything about themselves.  Want to get to know one of my characters, sorry, you will have to interact with them.  Of course I have no problem with actually descriptions, but if the first paragraph is about your childhood, I do not bother with the rest.  I am not here to read your fan fiction, post it in the forum or on your own website if you wish.  also, please try to have the things that should be obvious first, so the longer I look you over, the more details I might see.  Or not.  If you want to RP some long detailed event with me, you might find that, as in many cases in real life, my character may just blow you off.   Make it entertaining for me (us?  ) and we might play.  )

[Smekel]

I think that we are all missing a larger issue here.  Given that the game takes place in a medieval setting and given that literacy rates in that time were often below 10% , the fact that we are using text as a mode of communication at all is completely OOC.

The proper solution to this problem is to develop an in-game implementation of voice chat that dynamically assigns you to a channel based on your proximity to other characters.  That way when you are standing still at Kada-El you can take part in the voice chat happening there, but as you run through Hydlaa you will migrate through many channels picking up bits and pieces of various conversations.  This will also help out with the extremely OOC fact that thanks to logging, all our characters have photographic memories.  Naturally, once logging is removed there will have to be some method for recording events, transactions and literature.  I propose that this could be accomplished by implementing reading as a trainable skill.  This skill would give the possessor the ability to log with varying duration and accuracy based on his/her skill level and over time learn to read the books in the various collections around the game.  Perhaps such people could even be useful in settling disputes between illiterate characters.  Or they could even represent illiterate characters in disputes with lettered citizens.  In short .... Planeshift needs lawyers.

Or we could try to do the best that we can with the combination of tools and imagination that we have at our disposal and hope that as few people as possible attempt to make themselves superheroes (either by PL, RP, glitching or any other method to make themselves look strong and others look weak)

-------------
DISCLAIMER:
Some of my best friends are lawyers   I did not intend that stream of consciousness to wind up there, but it did and it made me smile.  I hope it has that effect for more viewers than it offends.

[Dreamcrafter]

The proper solution to this problem is to develop an in-game implementation of voice chat that dynamically assigns you to a channel based on your proximity to other characters.  That way when you are standing still at Kada-El you can take part in the voice chat happening there, but as you run through Hydlaa you will migrate through many channels picking up bits and pieces of various conversations.  This will also help out with the extremely OOC fact that thanks to logging, all our characters have photographic memories.  Naturally, once logging is removed there will have to be some method for recording events, transactions and literature.  I propose that this could be accomplished by implementing reading as a trainable skill.  This skill would give the possessor the ability to log with varying duration and accuracy based on his/her skill level and over time learn to read the books in the various collections around the game.  Perhaps such people could even be useful in settling disputes between illiterate characters.  Or they could even represent illiterate characters in disputes with lettered citizens.  In short .... Planeshift needs lawyers.

Good gods, man.  For a moment I thought you were serious, and I was preparing to heave a brick at you.     I have to say, though, upon realizing your point... well said!   

[Raa]

Happybluelizard, I disagree with everything you just said. Quality over quantity, and no one ever said players of "good" characters were the only ones at fault.

Raa, I re-read Happybluelizard again... and while I usually agree with a lot you say.. I am confused.  Maybe I am missing something?
(besides the name... I will refer to them as HBL for clarity and brevity)

HBL starts with a question, which do you prefer, option A or option B.
HBL then says they agree that you should read one's description and act accordingly.  (see sidebar below)
HBL then points out that some baddies do it too, (do you disagree with that too, since you "disagree with everything you just said"?)
HBL then points out that we should educate people about RPing, rather than getting upset. and then closes with a "in my opinion" conclusion.

I do not see what exactly is the "everything" you disagree with, though HBL does seem to be talking more about events, (group, guild and gm?) while you might be talking about individual interaction?  But again, as HBL states:

Well... Hm, too lazy to respond now... Uh, HBL didn't really get the point of the thread, I don't think, and thought it meant including more people in RP (by means of cheating)... As Vannaka said, if you're a baddie, you don't want more people involved. Yeah...

I don't know why this is all in a quote. 

[Matlush]

Hmm.. dunno, but reading this topic gave me this idea where one would not be able to write the name of his murderer in a guild chat or tells for certain amount of time... but then you could bypass it by typing "ZkkkkkkkOkkkkkMkkkkkkGkkkkZkkkHkkkkkkkAkkkkkkkN TkkkkkkEkkkkkRkkkkkkkTkkkkkkkkE killed me!". So I guess it would require some coding.

[Adele]

Why not have a system that prevents pvp more than once in 20 minutes? (Forgive me if anyone's suggested this yet). That way the murderer has time to escape, at the very least. Though, perhaps there can be an RP-rule that once you enter the death realm, you forget the last 10 minutes before you entered?

[Timmothy Perriwinkle]

Well this is also a lot of the fault of the person who died anyway. I mean, settingswise, the Death Realm is huge and IMO it's bad RP to just dash through in 3 minutes then pop back into Yliakum. I always spend an absolute minimum of 4 IRL hours in the Death Realm, but usually it's 1-2 IRL days. It drives me mad to do so, and that's why I try not to die. I flee. I use the guards to my advantage. That sort of thing.

[Adele]

It is bad RP Timmothy...is there anything that rewards good roleplay or punishes bad roleplay? A lot of NWN2 servers have RP rewards that give good RPers some extra experience, especially since they tend to keep away from abusing the system to level up

[Timmothy Perriwinkle]

No, there's not really anything to reward you, other than the RP itself, which IMO is enough reward for me.

[Adele]

True, but if it encourages RP among those who would otherwise not care...

[Lolitra, Celorrim Purrty Twins]

To RP or not to RP that is the question - this has been debated and debated, I have yet to see a solution that fits all.  I do however, have issues with people who oocly call all to a small RP part in a bigger plot where someone is dragged off to a corner to be mugged etc - it is soo unproductive to the bigger RP picture.

And as to the Death Realm - well, I have to admit - I hate the fact that some players don't take it seriously and pop in an out of it as if going to another town!  Death should have more of a price than just half stats for a short while... in my oppinion.

But back to the point of this thread - mini plots in big plots where the so called good are battling the so called evil - There are sooo many elements that should be taken into consideration, such as who is watching, would your character risk being seen so near guards? [npc's],  and should you really RP outside your actual character's game mechanics abilities?  The game has progressed so much with its mechanics, we should really no longer have to RP outside them.  I know this is hard for those who like me prefer to RP than to Level - as we will never be as levelled as the power levellers... but amongst RPers we probably are well balanced [or not depends how long you get to level v RP I guess].  But until one gains level/skill from just doing things in proportion to what your skill is - as it does seem rather out of kilter towards the fighting rather than the doing...  well, one has to go with it I guess? [oh gosh I am waffling.]

[dragnoor]

The victim was robbed and killed. end of I say. The fallout is the guild hunting down vannaka. A symptom of thieving. One cannot rob with impunity. He/she expect to be targeted by the victims friends. This is normal.
                                                                                            The problem is IC or OOC. I suspect like myself vannaka dont give a hoot about it. If they victim accepted the challenge then the incident ends right there. Only it dont does it? Vannaka will no doubt be punished for his actions.
                                                                                            The games mechanics are at fault. I suggest that out of towns the challenge isnt required. That way IC or OOC has no relevance. One would think long and hard about running to oja for a quest item or purchasing 300 pots from an NPC. Yet again this isnt ok either as you'd have gangs of bad guys/gals waiting at entrances/exits of maps to "spin", victims. There isnt an answer to this problem. ...Yet.
OK yes IC vannaka could plot up and "Ask" a character on the road to oja lets say, to hand over his goods or trias? And IC the victim would either comply or decline. IC it would end there on the basis of the victims answer.
I agree totally with vannaka.

 

[Raa]

The victim was robbed and killed. end of I say. The fallout is the guild hunting down vannaka. A symptom of thieving. One cannot rob with impunity. He/she expect to be targeted by the victims friends. This is normal.

It's not normal when it's taken to OOC and all of the victim's friends attack the killer/robber with no prior IC knowledge of what happened.

[Candy]

I don't think we need to go as far as having the whole road made into a challenge-free PvP zone. It's really more that the players need to use a little more common sense in these cases. It's absolutely ridiculous to get your whole guild after one small-time crook, yes, but some characters would react in more extreme ways than others (for example, if Monala were robbed by someone she knew she couldn't defeat, she'd brush the robbery off and go do some errands to fill her pockets again, but my alt, Laraus, would cower, fork over her things, and beg for mercy. If they were robbed and killed, they'd probably both tell the guards, though Laraus would be quite traumatized by the death realm and probably stick around the entrance until she gathers her courage, while Monala tends to poke around the DR Library and/or vent her frustration at dying on the critters for a bit before returning to the land of the living).

Not to mention, what if the guards overheard that your character was taking the law into their own hands and getting citizens to kill the robber? You'd probably all end up in jail.