Author Topic: IC baddies vs OOC goodies  (Read 11439 times)

Mythryndel

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2008, 02:03:51 am »
I have a problem with the DR as people keep describing it. I see all over the place both on the forums and in-game where you are SUPPOSED to go to the DR. I've had to go there for quests, you have to go there to continue learning the Dark Way, you are even TOLD to go there and read books. Why is it that going to the DR is supposed to practically cripple you for weeks and weeks and whatever? Why is everyone sooooooo opposed to going through the DR and coming back with the curse for 30 minutes...

Shortcut... who cares? It is a means to an end, and when it comes to running from BD to Akkaio... even with the curse it is quicker to /die and be done with it. I get VERY tired of endlessly traveling back and forth and back and forth for these UNGRATEFUL NPCs!!! Anyone want to help me push Lorytia Starhammer over that cliff? but I digress...

In this game, why is going to the DR any different than visiting BD or Akkaio or any other place in Y'liakum?

Raa

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2008, 02:43:30 am »
Well, killing yourself is kind of a big deal, Mythryndel... And the quests that lead you there are probably going to change in the future. And you probably won't have to go there to train DW. Going to the DR will probably be much worse later on. Dying isn't supposed to be a joy ride.

Bamko

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2008, 03:53:00 am »
Been discussed before, so please do not give me credit for idea.. but...

What if you spawn on the same map you died from, like where you drop if see out of bounds.... when you die.

so in BDF, type /die.  go through DR and boom... you are now at half stats.. and not far from where you died.

Still can be used to get terminally unstuck (not same exact location) and to do DR quests.. but no longer a shortcut.

Another idea I heard, have it take a random level in something, permanently.  So every trip requires you to see which one you lost and go retrain.  makes you really hurt if it is a crafting level....stat level not so bad.. but still enough to prevent using it as a shortcut.  nothing not recoverable.. but hey, when you are level 100 on something, and now you are level 99.... ugh.  of course newer people being at lower levels, it would not affect them as much. (also would encourage people to have a lot of things they dont use much be low levels, to increase chance that it wont affect their few "important" skills.

Re: guilds chasing down a criminal, reminds me of http://tshcomic.googlepages.com/episode7
Doesn't the "murderer" realize their victim will come back soon, and tell their friends?  Now I understand they would not be around you in 3 minutes... but they would hunt you down... and may keep doing it.  The cost of doing the business of crime in a realm where permadeath is kind of rare.  You can not kill a witness to silence them.  that is the nature of yliakum.  So lets get creative.  How would you compensate for this?  Maybe something like honor among theives and a thieves guild?  (by the way, what is up with so many identical guilds?  wouldn't one thief guild prevent all other theiving, and require others to pay protection money to be protected.  and anyone who violated that would be in trouble.  Still waiting to see that Ingame. 

Mythryndel

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2008, 04:09:43 am »
The idea of a thieves guild and such... the problem there... is that you can't force ANYTHING on another player. Just ask those that have tried to play a bad/evil character or tried to set up a blockade... People would likely be much less rude if they could be put in their place without having to "accept" the consequences first.

Also... DR...  I still don't get the big deal RIGHT NOW... you are encouraged to go there for many reasons, but everyone gripes about it constantly. How it is being abused, how you shouldn't ever go there, how it should permanently change/scar you... If perma-death is so rare, then it is not that big a deal to /die every now and then. Explain it how ever you want in your RP, but to quote many a hollywood movie... "Death is but the next great adventure"... and in Y'liakum, it is a literal place that is inhabited by critters and people... and a library for some strange reason...

Vannaka

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2008, 05:37:38 am »
yeah umm... i'm not going to agree or disagree with you Mythryndel about that, but its a bit off topic... 


Re: guilds chasing down a criminal, reminds me of http://tshcomic.googlepages.com/episode7
Doesn't the "murderer" realize their victim will come back soon, and tell their friends?  Now I understand they would not be around you in 3 minutes... but they would hunt you down... and may keep doing it.  The cost of doing the business of crime in a realm where permadeath is kind of rare.  You can not kill a witness to silence them.  that is the nature of yliakum.

The issue isn't that they would come back and tell their friends, that's understandable, the issue is when a man they have never met and who is wearing a helm over his face attacks the person, and then somehow their whole guild knows who the person is, where the person was, and shows up before the person even has a chance to leave the scene of the crime or to count his loot from the ill fated traveller
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freeharte

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2008, 09:42:54 pm »
The issue isn't that they would come back and tell their friends, that's understandable, the issue is when a man they have never met and who is wearing a helm over his face attacks the person, and then somehow their whole guild knows who the person is, where the person was, and shows up before the person even has a chance to leave the scene of the crime or to count his loot from the ill fated traveller

Such is the nature of crime in a land where the inhabitants are "tell-epathic." ;)

Raa

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2008, 10:01:10 pm »
Har har harr.

Waoknie

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2008, 11:27:25 pm »
Maybe characters do communicate using magic?..

 Let me see if I understand. Someone DID what to who?.. As far as I know,

The idea of a thieves guild and such... the problem there... is that you can't force ANYTHING on another player. Just ask those that have tried to play a bad/evil character or tried to set up a blockade... People would likely be much less rude if they could be put in their place without having to "accept" the consequences first.

 So, if no one can really steal, kill, push or do any, then why bother playing a baddie? The only way is via RP, right?.. well, this is a RP game, so RP your goodies and baddies. It's the only thing you can really do. And if for some reason, you end up in DR, it's your fault for accepting a challenge, having auto accept on or being at the wrong place. That's the way we all want it, right?.

 I used to be part of a guild like the one described. It's the only guild I've been in and since then, I have found no reason to get into another one (or the same). Why?.. Well, some bad connection in my brain states that if there is no chance of doing it, then why bother?.. therefore, being in a baddie guild and RP does not compute very well in my brain.

 Social behavior is no crap. Communication between social entities is inverse in complexity to the size of the parties. For example, two individuals can talk very deeply about any topic for a long period of time. Add some couples and you end up with two groups who don't really add much depth to the topic. Add some dozens and they just understand yes, no, demo, repu, black, white, kill, die and so on. The larger the group, the simpler the concepts.

 Guess why is it that RPing a blockade is so easy when it starts and so tangled when it's ruined? Careful! the only way for a single individual to deal with large groups is in a conference, speech or alike. It can not be a conversation. and this is why GM's have greater chances of success when doing an event. They can impose the conditions of the communication and impart discipline on the monkeys.

  The characters in the game recognized that guild as a baddie for it's reputation. And it still goes pretty much the same way. Ask yourselves, what kind of identity this and other guilds had today if it wasn't for their glorious past? I mean, some recent player could very well oversee the character of a guild and some could say to him "Be careful, those are from ------- guild, they're badaches!" maybe he'd say: "lolz wha?.. they can't do s*** to me. I'm the omnivoroplus...ultra...mega..." and blah, blah, blah.

And you could reply now in this thread:  "..but my guild is still the ---- blah, blah blah"       NO! it's the bandit who gives the cop it's shoulder stripes. It's the rule.

  What if I asked you to prove your skills accordingly to your RP? (specially when playing the omnicapable)... well, I could ask the same to a guild. And?

  There is currently one single way. RP.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2008, 07:31:01 pm by Waoknie »

Arerano

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2008, 08:07:08 pm »
You can't force anyone to do anything and everyone has their own preferences. What is it about? RPing and fun for everyone, of course. Lets see.. 40% baddies, 40% heroes, 20% others and everyone does make mistakes. Some ignore that there are actually guards, some try to rob yet another person in front of the city, having their barricade there, althought several others already were robbed and went to Hydlaa. Some apparently just don't hear anything, ignoring their surroundings completely, some hear too much, some hear "voiced in their head", some "talk inside others heads"... and there are many more variations out there which make the one or the other person feeling offended/angry/whatever OOCly.

Firstly we have too many "baddies" and "heros" (leaving out those who shut their eyes and ears from any kind of interaction). Where are all the common citizen? ..anyway, that's beside the point.

The solution is simple: Think out your plot/ideas and keep in mind that it should be fun for every participant. It doesn't need to be some huge event or such but you should have some few rules at least (at least those which should be obvious, like "no OOC calling of help"). Find your victim and make them your OOC offer about "that incident" and be sure to make it clear that it's meant to be fun (some, sadly, just can't distinguish/understand OOC - IC that well and may take things personally otherwise). If they agree, fine, lets have fun! If they don't, don't do it.

I am certain that you'll (sooner or later) know who is likely to join such "incidents" (both goodies and baddies) but keep in mind that "the same person likely doesn't want to get robbed each day".
If that all doesn't help, rethink about your "OOC offer", maybe it's just not good enought (or those you asked want "more than nice RP" if they're going to lose - some just can't appreciate nice RP - or some RP just isn't worth it.) Also consider that RPers don't necessarily PAY for RP. (In case you're trying to earn trias that way.)

If all fails: Let your "baddie" friends summon their own "goodie" to be robbed. Each day another of your fellows. ..but that should be the last thing to do.

It wasn't that easy for me to find a fitting (well-RPing) "bad person" when I needed one.
(much more than I planned to write.. ..actually pondered if I should even bother adding my thoughts)

zanzibar

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2008, 03:03:44 am »
I've found that it isn't a good idea to play a character that is an outright theif, murderer, trouble maker, etc, unless you're extremely sly about it and only act where you cannot be seen.  If you do anything that is very public, then the character is over, or else you violate reaslism and the character is ruined.

It's very possible to roleplay "dark" characters and many people have done that with great success.  Truly evil characters and criminals however, I very rarely ever saw done well.  I would say that if you want to roleplay a criminal, do your best to behave realistically.  If the character is killed, let the character die.  If the character is caught, let the character get caught.

And whatever you do, don't take things personally.  The goal is to be in character.
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dragnoor

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2008, 10:28:28 am »
Re Zanzibar's Post :
Bang on the button.

The problem is that the game lacks the mechanics for such a role. Permadeath is one answer. Or at least an effectual ban for a set period. Dark chars would think twice about their mark then.



khoridor

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2008, 08:50:23 am »
its no fun to just tell ur whole guild what happened through guild chat and have them show up at the scene of the crime.

Indeed it's not fun.
What would be fun would be to chase the criminal in a proper act, either an investigation through witnesses or a manhunt in the wilds. All in agreement with the bad guy.

its not very heroic to show up with 10 good guys to punish 1 bad guy...

Indeed it's not heroic.
In folklore, 1 good guy will come and punish 10 bad guys.

Now, what puzzles me: what happens if, say, Vannaka takes out a few of the good guys before he is slain? All meet in the DR starting room, and then what? Fight again? Ignore each other? Call for more guild members (it's so quick to reach this place)? Have a celebration party?

Vannaka

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2008, 04:36:04 pm »
Now, what puzzles me: what happens if, say, Vannaka takes out a few of the good guys before he is slain? All meet in the DR starting room, and then what? Fight again? Ignore each other? Call for more guild members (it's so quick to reach this place)? Have a celebration party?

If Vannaka was slain, i think i would have to ignore the good guys he brought down when i meet them in the DR, because i don't think you're really all supposed to appear in the same spot in the death realm.  I think you're really supposed to be spawned at some random place inside the huge maze and then have to find your way out from a different spot each time, but mechanics just doesn't support it yet.
Censorship FTW.

Duraza

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2008, 10:20:42 pm »
If Vannaka was slain, i think i would have to ignore the good guys he brought down when i meet them in the DR, because i don't think you're really all supposed to appear in the same spot in the death realm.  I think you're really supposed to be spawned at some random place inside the huge maze and then have to find your way out from a different spot each time, but mechanics just doesn't support it yet.

I believe your right. If I remember correctly the spawn points ideally are 'random'. the Citadel is just one place in DR but there are many others you could appear in.
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Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: IC baddies vs OOC goodies
« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2008, 02:25:21 pm »
If I didn't weigh in before, let me say: I find it LAME that people would use tells to summon all of their buddies to go for revenge against a baddy on baddy turf on an RP server.

That said it is pretty unavoidable because good guys always win, because "good guys" always cheat. . .