Game Art Contribution Contests and Rewards

[Brinnen1]

I've had an idea about game art contribution contests and rewards. I hope that it will be met with some enthusiasm.

Even if you host contests for art contributions that can later be included into the game, there isn't much you can offer as a reward, being a free project. What could a free project offer as a reward to someone who designs an additional playable race or a new armor, for example? What is one of the most desirable things in any MMORPG, even in a popular commercial one? The answer is unique character customization. And the best part is that a contest winner designs their own reward! Read on...

Let's say you host a contest to design a new playable race with the reward being that a contest winner can design their own unique helmet that will only be available to their character and no one else throughout the game. Even though they will have to design that helmet themselves, it does pretty much guarantee that they won't be disappointed with the result.

What about the stats of such items? Make them visual or social items only. Implement a new equipment slot in the GUI for social items with a check box to make them visible or invisible. All the stats will be based on regular items of the same type equipped in regular slots and obtained by regular means (quests, loot etc), while the social items can override the visual appearance.

I don't think the community would mind someone having a unique visual item, if it means having all playable races, better customization, new gear, new areas etc.

This could speed up the game development significantly.

[Caarrie]

planeshift only accepts the highest quality art if you can do something like you suggested apply to the dev team and go from there. you have a better chance then any contest to make it ingame.

[firiban]

hey, i like that idea! I think it's a great motivation, if you get ingame items as a reward for development work! In case of smaller artwork, let's say, a sword model etc. the reward could also be more tria (which your character found on the street one day ). Don't be so restrictive and say "if you wanna do something, join the team!". I think there are a lot of hobby designers, who just don't want to have the responsibilities of a team member, don't have enough time to "produce" new artwork regulary, ...   These people would get a chance to improve planeshift and their own character.

And don't say things like "planeshift only accepts the highest quality art". If that was true, yliakum was empty. I don't want to sound respectless here. The art ingame looks nice and it's fun to play ps, but it's surely not what we call "highest quality" in 2008. also the expression "highest quality" might make some hobby modellers think that they aren't good enough.

Why can't there be a forum category where the community can vote what artwork they would like to see ingame? That would assure that only good models would enter the game. If something doesnt yet look so great, maybe someone else could change it to look better.

that would support a big graphics development community. and more new artwork can't be bad for ps!?


just my 0.02€...
Firiban

[Kieve]

Caarie's right in saying that if you, personally, want to contribute something, you are better advised to join us.

The problem is, while the code for Planeshift is open-source, the art assets fall under a separate license. To actually have your work placed in-game, you'd have to agree to that license. Also, to be painfully blunt, what we [need] is laid out in the form of tasks, internally. So while I would enjoy seeing something like this happen, there's little profit in holding a contest where the winner has made, oh say a beautiful axe, only to be told "Sorry, but these aren't the assets we're looking for." Or equally unfortunate, the artist does not agree with our license and so we cannot use their work - however awesome it is, or however desperately we may need it.

And on THAT note, if you're really looking to help out, the deadline for the City Contest is Sept. 30th, and word is they could use more than a little assistance to make it.

[Nikodemus]

Ya, the city contest is stll happening as come and help us.
But no, no thousands of tria for the winners and no Axe of doom +100, because its RP game and no matter how hard you try, you can't explain such a price ICly. No, explaining you found it in the middle of a street is a failed joke

planeshift only accepts the highest quality art

That indeed is incorrect. The PS art we see in game really isn't of the highest quality and even if a lot of stuff we are doing i the citycontest looks better than some stuff in game, I still wouldn't call it the highest quality.

[Enaudni]

Ya, the city contest is stll happening as come and help us.
But no, no thousands of tria for the winners and no Axe of doom +100, because its RP game and no matter how hard you try, you can't explain such a price ICly. No, explaining you found it in the middle of a street is a failed joke Wink
Quote from: Caarrie on September 10, 2008, 10:15:10 AM

planeshift only accepts the highest quality art

That indeed is incorrect. The PS art we see in game really isn't of the highest quality and even if a lot of stuff we are doing i the citycontest looks better than some stuff in game, I still wouldn't call it the highest quality.

True, I don't think their focus is really quality, or rather its not the number one factor.  Adherence to settings and license issues probably take precedence. Otherwise other stuff would likely be ingame already.

[firiban]

the licensing problems are self-made. why can't an artist post a new item/house/tree/etc and write "published under the Atomic Blue License version 1.0 as published by atomic blue inc." or whatever? To prevent the board of beeing flooded by many similar items (let's say 20 new short swords), the team could give out a list of things needed ingame.

Or equally unfortunate, the artist does not agree with our license and so we cannot use their work

Make a sticky Thread in the artwork forum that explains the license. if an artist doesn't agree, he shall contribute to another game or (i don't know if that's legally possible) dual-license it under atomic blue and a more free license, so it can be used by ps as well as by other games.

If you don't want to give people mega axes of death or much tria, then some useless and non-RP-relevant item could be given as a reward, so the artist can be recognized as an artist by the other players. Such an item could be a belt, a hat, an armor in a different colour, ...

[nedoko]

Hate to say this but I think Most free liscences have rights to copy and many other things that conflict with the ABC license.

[neko kyouran]

the team could give out a list of things needed ingame.

such has been done in the past.  look over this section: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?board=61.0

[Brinnen1]

firiban,

You seem to be the only one who read my post carefully and understood it, unlike the rest. Running a contest does not imply a worse quality artwork than being on the "dev team", it could easily end up being better, since better motivation is involved. Thanks very much!

I'm amazed how suggesting a motivational and rewarding contribution effort by the community that could greatly benefit everyone and speed up the game's development was perceived in such a phobic way by some.

planeshift only accepts the highest quality art if you can do something like you suggested apply to the dev team and go from there. you have a better chance then any contest to make it ingame.

Hence the reason for a contest, which could determine "the highest quality art". Anything of unacceptable quality does not have to be included. Besides, beggars can't be choosers -- you're not a commercial team. If you expect commercial quality work, expect to pay. No offense but I would also not call your current in-game art as "highest quality", especially painted tree forest, blurry textures and pixelated "sky". And, according to Fragnetics.com press release history, they helped PlaneShift launch in 2003-2004. According to PlaneShift.it site, the project launched in 2000-2002, and according to some presentation I found on CrystalSpace3D website, it used to be a commercial MUD that started in 1992. It is almost 2009 now, so clearly this is more than just being a "free" project problem.

What does "go from there" mean? I'm not interested in being on the "dev team", I made a suggestion about contribution contests with several people involved and with respective rewards for the contest winner. Contributors deserve to be rewarded for their contribution work.

But no, no thousands of tria for the winners and no Axe of doom +100, because its RP game and no matter how hard you try, you can't explain such a price ICly.

You've obviously failed to read this part of my original post

What about the stats of such items? Make them visual or social items only. Implement a new equipment slot in the GUI for social items with a check box to make them visible or invisible. All the stats will be based on regular items of the same type equipped in regular slots and obtained by regular means (quests, loot etc), while the social items can override the visual appearance.

Caarie's right in saying that if you, personally, want to contribute something, you are better advised to join us.

Advised or required? And for what? So that "Winning submission will become the property of Atomic Blue Corporation"? That is not a reward and you cannot expect people to work for free and be basically modern day slave laborers. Where is the motivation? Not only are you suggesting that I'd have to give up the rights to my work but the work would be unrewarded. I'm not a charity and you guys aren't starving children who cannot afford to pay any bills. Thanks but no, thanks.

The problem is, while the code for Planeshift is open-source, the art assets fall under a separate license. To actually have your work placed in-game, you'd have to agree to that license. Also, to be painfully blunt, what we [need] is laid out in the form of tasks, internally. So while I would enjoy seeing something like this happen, there's little profit in holding a contest where the winner has made, oh say a beautiful axe, only to be told "Sorry, but these aren't the assets we're looking for." Or equally unfortunate, the artist does not agree with our license and so we cannot use their work - however awesome it is, or however desperately we may need it.

Since we are being painfully blunt here, this does not quite sound like an "open source game" that PlaneShift is being advertised as.

To avoid having contestants making assets that you're not looking for, clearly outline what you're looking for when hosting a contest, and if your license is proprietary, clearly outline what it is, such as in the city contest:

2.1.1. License

Winning submission will become the property of Atomic Blue Corporation under the terms of the PlaneShift Content License. The members of the winning teams of each phase will be required to sign and return the Atomic Blue Contribution license. (http://www.atomicblue.org/docs/AB_Contribution_License_2006.11.06.pdf)
The signing of this license pertains only to assets created in relation to this contest.
Pages 4, 5 and 6 of the license must be faxed to+1-831-677-4686.

Failure to submit the signed license by close date of the contest will result in the disqualification of the team or individual.

Could the same not be done for a playable race contest with an ability to design your own unique social visual item as a reward? Keep in mind that "The Rest of the Player Races" has won in the "Art Dept Poll" by a large margin:

http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32474.0

And on THAT note, if you're really looking to help out, the deadline for the City Contest is Sept. 30th, and word is they could use more than a little assistance to make it.

Make your license non-proprietary (such as in "Apricot" project) and/or make it a contest with respective rewards for the winner and I'll think about it.

the team could give out a list of things needed ingame.

such has been done in the past.  look over this section: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?board=61.0

If you mean this thread: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=28502.0

That is not a contest, there is no motivation to contribute anything, and it does not list playable race models nor any rewards for what it does list. Are playable race models not needed or about to be finished and released? In either case, if you've made such a "list", the contributors should be properly thanked and rewarded for their work. Otherwise, don't expect any help.

Hate to say this but I think Most free liscences have rights to copy and many other things that conflict with the ABC license.

Such a license is ABC's, not contributors', choice, just as they chose a less restricting and more rewarding license for "Apricot" (although they did ask for donations, just to be able to pay the developers).

According to what I've just read here, being an art developer on Atomic Blue and PlaneShift is a very thankless and unrewarding job, and the only way to contribute anything is to join the "dev team", sign a contract and give up all rights to your work, without getting paid and without any kind of reward, such as a unique social in-game item. One would have to be a very foolish person to sign such a contract.

Thanks but I'm going to have to decline your offer.

[Crj]

Capitalists! 
Why do you need rewards? Isnt the fun of creating something awesome enough for you?
I, for one, need more time. Saddly the days when i could geek around after school are long gone. I would realy like to contribute more to the city contest than i already have, but no reward would give me more motivation, except getting paid full time so i can drop my job and studies, but thats just... wrong. Wrong and stupid. Wrong, stupid and pure nonsense.
The current game art may not meet the highest standarts, but its better than what 97% of the community could ever do. Even if they think they can do better(not targeted at Nikodemus  ). Seeing that something is wrong is one thing. Knowing what exactly is wrong is another. Being able to create something better is on a whole different level. But if you think that nothing is wrong(also in uber games like WoW)... creating game art might not be your thing.

So.. no rewards!
What is some mysterious entry in the database compared to the fun of creation?

And oh yes, copyrights have driven the society insane. You might even turn into a small Lars Ulrich, minus the skill.

[Kieve]

Brinnen1, I can respect your position. Most graphical artists, 2D or 3D, are reluctant to waive rights to their work, and understandably so. Two things you should probably keep in mind however, are:

• The artwork being used in this game is never going to be used anywhere else. Ever. By agreeing to the license set forth for contributions or for being on the team, all you're really doing is acknowledging an agreement than you won't at some point release the exact same work for another freeware or commercial product. We'd be very upset to see a normal-mapped Ulbernaut, for example, turning up in somebody's Doom3 mod.
  
• Closely related to this, we cannot afford to have a disaffected artist decide to be spiteful and pull whatever assets they've already created. If I, for example, decided tomorrow that I was unhappy with PS's direction/management/goals/whatever, I cannot rescind my work and prevent them from using it - which is most certainly in the best interests of the project as a whole.

I'm amazed how suggesting a motivational and rewarding contribution effort by the community that could greatly benefit everyone and speed up the game's development was perceived in such a phobic way by some.

Not phobic at all - as I said in my post, I would be happy to see something of this nature happen, with the correct guidelines set forth. And when the City Contest has ended, we may very well see another of its kind take place, depending on the success of Amendir.

Following that note:

What about the stats of such items? Make them visual or social items only. Implement a new equipment slot in the GUI for social items with a check box to make them visible or invisible. All the stats will be based on regular items of the same type equipped in regular slots and obtained by regular means (quests, loot etc), while the social items can override the visual appearance.
...
This could speed up the game development significantly.

You're asking for new features, new graphical elements, and token help from the community. No, this would not speed up development, it would slow things down even more. We're working ourselves to the bone to expand and enrich this world.

Hence the reason for a contest, which could determine "the highest quality art". Anything of unacceptable quality does not have to be included. Besides, beggars can't be choosers -- you're not a commercial team. If you expect commercial quality work, expect to pay. No offense but I would also not call your current in-game art as "highest quality", especially painted tree forest, blurry textures and pixelated "sky". And, according to Fragnetics.com press release history, they helped PlaneShift launch in 2003-2004. According to PlaneShift.it site, the project launched in 2000-2002, and according to some presentation I found on CrystalSpace3D website, it used to be a commercial MUD that started in 1992. It is almost 2009 now, so clearly this is more than just being a "free" project problem.

People come and go, and the game has been in development for years as you observed. Suffice to say, what was considered acceptable quality in 2004 would be rejected under current art requirements. Or have you not noticed the drastic increase in quality between oh, say the Ylian male and the Nolthrir female? I have little doubt that by the time we have all races enabled in-game, several will be scrutinized for an overhaul, to bring them up to par with the rest. And that is only [one] facet.
My point is, (and this goes to the others who brought it up as well), take that particular comment with a grain of salt, and understand that we are holding ourselves to consistently higher standards as development progresses.

What does "go from there" mean? I'm not interested in being on the "dev team", I made a suggestion about contribution contests with several people involved and with respective rewards for the contest winner. Contributors deserve to be rewarded for their contribution work.
...
Advised or required? And for what? So that "Winning submission will become the property of Atomic Blue Corporation"? That is not a reward and you cannot expect people to work for free and be basically modern day slave laborers. Where is the motivation? Not only are you suggesting that I'd have to give up the rights to my work but the work would be unrewarded. I'm not a charity and you guys aren't starving children who cannot afford to pay any bills. Thanks but no, thanks.
...
That is not a contest, there is no motivation to contribute anything, and it does not list playable race models nor any rewards for what it does list. Are playable race models not needed or about to be finished and released? In either case, if you've made such a "list", the contributors should be properly thanked and rewarded for their work. Otherwise, don't expect any help.
Such a license is ABC's, not contributors', choice, just as they chose a less restricting and more rewarding license for "Apricot" (although they did ask for donations, just to be able to pay the developers).
...
According to what I've just read here, being an art developer on Atomic Blue and PlaneShift is a very thankless and unrewarding job, and the only way to contribute anything is to join the "dev team", sign a contract and give up all rights to your work, without getting paid and without any kind of reward, such as a unique social in-game item. One would have to be a very foolish person to sign such a contract.

Hm, I'm sensing a theme. What exactly is it you would like so badly? A pat on the back? A cookie? The praise and adoration of the masses?

For upwards of three years, I worked on mods for a single-player game (TES3: Morrowind). I enjoyed the challenge, and savored the grateful posts and praise I received when I put up a RELEASE thread in the forums - the standard practice for announcing a new mod.

...Such an experience pales in comparison to the pride I feel walking the streets of Ojaveda, seeing countless players [using] my work, first-hand. First-person observation, not a chance screenshot someone happened to take from their single-player game. I can say with absolute honesty that I feel rewarded seeing my contributions used in-game.

But clearly, you expect more. You expect us to jump and cheer at the new work you're proposing for us. You expect that we will hold you high above the masses and worship you for your brilliant idea, your unfathomable leadership in guiding us to this holy epiphany you call a "rewarding" contest. Pardon me for not sounding quite so enthusiastic.

Thanks but I'm going to have to decline your offer. :)

I assure you, we are the thankful ones.

[Eliseth]

Every thing that has been said in here has been said before, mostly anyway, all that's left now is the potential for flames and personal attacks.

* Eliseth locks the thread to avoid bloodshed.

[neko kyouran]

congrats to you.

you just made a duplicate of this gem of a thread.  http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=29905.0