What if you entered the game with maxed out stats?

[zanzibar]

I was just thinking.  How would the game be different if you could create your character with any starting stats that you wish?  There would be limitations on it, but there would be no levelling once you got started.  How would it change things?

[Parallo]

UTM spoke about something similar enough to this before, I think.

[zanzibar]

Yes, his opinion is that we should be able to enter the game as the characters we wish to roleplay, instead of working and grinding for too long just so that we can start playing the game.

It's more complicated than that though, because a rule about "typical" MMOs is that the grind is the game.  So what happens if we eliminate the grind?

[Gravemind]

Eliminate the grind, people will farm for tria to buy the best equipment


Also, if every character is born equal, with a set area of abilities maxed out, then it'd mean that peasants and guards are able to fight evenly. Some characters being much stronger or weaker then others is a necessary part of any game.

[Tuxide]

I can imagine this happening with settings-approved characters.  Else you're just flipping on god mode.

[Parallo]

@Gravemind:Thats if people choosing to play as peasants chose the stats of a hero. I'm sure whats meant is that people don't become uniform but get to choose what their stats are.

[zanzibar]

Let's put in some limitations then.  You'll have a certain number of "skill points" to allocate as you choose.  You won't be the best at everything, but you can be the best at a few things, depending on how you make your character.  And there will be nothing forcing you to use all your points.

[Under the moon]

Everything would have to change. Grind would still be needed, but with a different direction. The game would have to shift from a complete Something Gained setup that it is to incorporate a harder to do but far more innovative Something Gained/Something Lost system.

[zanzibar]

Ah, interesting!  So when you use a skill, you get better at it.  When you neglect a skill, you get worse at it.  Slowly, over time.  So your character will evolve over time based on how you behave, but there's a zero sum gain.  I like it!

It wouldn't work with the current system of progression points and trainers.  Progression points would have to be taken out of the game.  Training would simply speed the process up, but it would never be the main focus.

[Under the moon]

Somewhat. Not so much skills as environment. Skills could drop some with disuse, but I would not make it extreme.

In a complete SG system, you grind mobs for one reason: Gain Skill and Loot.

In a complete SL system, you grind mobs to keep them from destroying your cities, skill and loot is besides the point.

In a SG/SL hybrid, you grind mobs to gain skill and loot as well as grind mobs to keep their numbers down so they don't burn your cities to the ground, invade your mines and make your roads unsafe. You just gradually do this over an area, making the inner part 'safe' for new people who want to start with a low character, and outer warzone areas that need highly skilled fighters to defend at all times (based on how many players are online). If the mobs are not constantly pushed back, the 'safe' circle shrinks as the mobs push in and easy resources become less available.

[zanzibar]

So instead of having the occassional invasion orchestrated by drey game masters, there would be a constant threat of invasion, developed procedurally from the actions of players in game...

[Mythryndel]

I tend to like that idea... At least the overall concept of more mobs and it not being safe unless we, the players, push back the rising flow of monsters.

I'm still iffy on the stats/skills concept here though. I'd just have to see how it all worked out. Outside of it taking forever to gain levels beyond... um... 5 in some skills, the current system simply needs to be tweaked.... IMHO.

[neko kyouran]

mooney's original thread about the concept of current discussion is located in the wish list area of the forums, if you wanted to go re-read it. 

[Gravemind]

To concur, remember that earlier thread about how we can combine the RP playerbase and the power leveling playerbase? The reason that exists is because PS, like any MMO, is full of people who want nothing more then to be as powerful as possible. I seriously doubt more then.... five... people out of our current playerbase would actually choose to play a weaker character rather then maxing the best PVP skills.

Remember how some people suddenly discovered that the brown way's summon stone spell was the most kick ass ranged damage possible (which bugs me, brown way is concerned with defense mostly. Red way is supposed to be the one that deals the most damage, shortly followed by dark way because it uses pure 'death' power) so suddenly, every slapknut was aiming to be a brown way master, until 90% of the PVPers on the server have level 100 brown way.

I rest my case.

[Vannaka]

Remember how some people suddenly discovered that the brown way's summon stone spell was the most kick ass ranged damage possible (which bugs me, brown way is concerned with defense mostly. Red way is supposed to be the one that deals the most damage, shortly followed by dark way because it uses pure 'death' power) so suddenly, every slapknut was aiming to be a brown way master, until 90% of the PVPers on the server have level 100 brown way.

Amen to that, and thank god i'm one of the other 10%.  level 1 brown way! w00t!.... anywho, i don't think too much grinding is required for the current leveling system.  training costs can get a little high, but the actual time required isn't bad.  With enough money, proggression points, and the proper swords it would only take me about an hour to get a new char to lvl 20 swords.  Maybe an hour and a half at the most.