About why the tavern feels like a fight pit

[Velh Krome]

Where I live, a pub where several times a day people are hurt or killed will be closed.

I think evildoers could make use of dark alleys. They can watch out their victim in the tavern, and strike outside - what I think is silly is, to attack in front of numerous witnesses (including, and I am almost tired to mention it, Allelia).

[..]and it happens somewhere everyday of our lives[..]

Again: I dont have a problem with "somewhere sometime", but with frequently at the same spot. And I have a problem with people presuming to be RPing, and even tell me they do so (i.e. "lessoning me"), while the same time they obviously arent aware of either any setting or logical sense.

they also attack people in full view of others

I am fine with that - I am sure you yourself have seen dozens of stupid fights I refer to: Have you ever seen any single one who as well took the consequences of being caught by the law? You speak of sense, to be caught is a necessary part of that sense, almost everyone seems to ignore this, "inconvenient", part.

expect the guard to take you away and send your soul to the crystal

lol Why deleting one's char if that one can just state hes a great roleplayer and ignore the setting? As that infamous criminal that he is he can just run around and kill more people? Sounds like awesome RP, no?

good neighborhoods, bad neighborhoods

The tavern is as well located close to an official building which, one can only imagine, should be guarded well, not to mention the discrete presence of two guards. And what about that tower right outside the tavern?
Real life may reason to commit crimes, I agree with that and I like that, but real life as well gives an idea about consequences.

All I want is, people really, make up some more thought up stuff, something interesting (or at least reasonable), instead running aroung as if you guys were all rambos - as superpowered as blunt.

[Mordraugion]

Just to add a little perspective to the number of GM's needed for 24/7 Guard Roleplay if everyone could give 4 hours a day 7 days a week we'd need at least 20 GM's, to cover illness rl issues etc and the fact that every GM is unlikely to be able to cover 7 days a week that'd push the number required to 30+, we currently have 15.

However as I said previously if we are notified either via /petition and /report  irc or even forum pm/email, we will try and get online and deal with it or even roleplay an investigation at a later date. Most of us would much rather roleplay than just change stupid names or slap wrists for botting.

ps If you're over 21 and would like the opportunity to role play a guard as well as doing all the other duties that go with being a GM apply here

[John80sk]

I think that the Tavern has always been a place where fights got started.  The problem now is I see a lot less roleplay behind it.  I don't think we should so much worry about where things happen though, more what's happening.  People used to complain about how everyone congregated around Harnquist's shop, it just so happened that that used to be where everyone sold their loot and where all the smiths worked.  Now the tavern is where everybody goes to hang out, so that's where all the fights start.  As far as the fact that the fights sound like a match full of 12 year olds on Call of Duty, I don't know, I think the age group has changed in this game some.  It happens.  I just don't hang out in the tavern as much... unfortunately everywhere else is deserted by anyone willing to have a conversation.

I also remember when the tavern in Oja was populated... hurmph.  There's one in the Kran village too.  Maybe people not looking for a fight should try less dangerous taverns

[Mordraugion]

Maybe people not looking for a fight should try less dangerous taverns

Thats pretty much the point of contacting the GM's, Kada'els can hardly be considered dangerous with 2 Guards on duty outside the door it'd be like a bar with a cop/MP/SP station right nextdoor

[khoridor]

Anyone who fights in a tavern (and gets caught) should be fined. If only to cover the costs of repairing their damage.
Could such a process be automated in some way? And would that reduce the number of fights?

[Candy]

I also remember when the tavern in Oja was populated... hurmph.  There's one in the Kran village too.  Maybe people not looking for a fight should try less dangerous taverns

Brado's is supposed to be the violent one, though I'd assume the Gugrontid tavern would be fairly peaceful.

[Velh Krome]

the Gugrontid tavern would be fairly peaceful

Isnt the Gugrontid tavern meant to be without an owner and abandoned? Unless this has changed I wouldnt be surprised of peace in there 

John80sk,
your post sums up my thoughts pretty much. Maybe there has always been such nonsensical bar-wars, and I just never noticed it as much as now, since there are way less alternatives, people willing to play with more patience and passion for well thought out plots that is, than before.

Perhaps the lack of interesting stories told/played ingame is the main issue, and those silly fights only a major symptom. If people dont care about proper stuff, nothing to do about it.
Those GM guards were a good way to solve such issues in an IC fashion, and I certainly like it. In the end this approach even lowered the number of incidents. However, GMs cant be present there around the clock.

If you fight for more than what would be considered 2 minutes

If a char would kill another one right at the counter, clearly obvious to Allelia, and even if its by only one single blow, this char had to go and hide and not come back any soon - and thats why I am not sure presence of GM guards alone could solve it all.
The problem is people had to use common sense, respect to the settings and the honesty to have their chars punished at times.

Lastly: Those plays about stabbing here and attacking there, really, this is boring and just so unoriginal. Trying to remain within the limits of the setting, and the same time still figure out a good and exciting story - thats a challenge! Now will you guys take it on or will you keep on playing silly insignificant games? 

[Noriin]

Okay, first. I'm changing the thread's title and this post's as well, having created it with "light" instead of "like" ashames me. XD
I was very tired when I posted it... >:(
Now, given I'm here to do that I'll take the chance to give a few more replies.

What happens to a bank in real life? Someone comes and threatens everyone and robs it.

It happens once. You can rob the pharmacy today and rob the bakery tomorrow. Try to rob the pharmacy two days in a row and the second day you'll find a 2 meters gorilla waiting to give your pretty butt a couple of smacks, a security system with cams and probably those being connected to the police, and probably the owner having a shotgun hidden behind the counter. We only have a tavern (and obiviously many less means than nowadays in RL). I sure can't expect players to never get back in with a character that has been protagonist of a conflict there. But ten minutes later? An hour later? Two hours? Hmm, nope.

I had more stuff from your post to comment Duraza, but I think Velh addressed most of my points in the post right next to yours, so I'll leave it at that. :P

Just to add a little perspective to the number of GM's needed for 24/7 Guard Roleplay if everyone could give 4 hours a day 7 days a week we'd need at least 20 GM's, to cover illness rl issues etc and the fact that every GM is unlikely to be able to cover 7 days a week that'd push the number required to 30+, we currently have 15.

Of course, I didn't mean to have guards constantly patrolling the town but more like eventually that clamod menki Aazxh... er name, did. Or did other guards when the properly meant to be the Guards' events were finished. We've had a pretty long RP (considering GM's usual lack of time) with the guards after one of those when our chars had their place burglared and I must say that it was great to add to the feel (you can read about it in the first chapter of the story we are posting these days). That and other small apparitions of the guards helped keep the feeling there is a patrol around the town, there is no need to have it 24 hours strolling around or even 12 or 6 or 3. Simply to make players realise and acknowledge. Most of them would be feeling odd enough just to have to talk to certain people with an extra dose of respect.

Now the tavern is where everybody goes to hang out, so that's where all the fights start.

Even the levelers/duelers who are usually accused of ignoring the setting (not all of course) may -start- a fight at the tavern and take it outside the city walls to do the duel. Now what happens with the ones that claim to play properly, namely called RPers? Beaten by a noob hm? ;)

Ah, just to point out, this comment isn't meant to refer to an issue about you John80sk, you know I love playing with you... if I could find Jang nowadays I still would! XD

I also remember when the tavern in Oja was populated... hurmph.  There's one in the Kran village too.  Maybe people not looking for a fight should try less dangerous taverns :)

I'll head to the Gugrontid tavern... with a couple of books under my arm! And perhaps three days later somebody (who still didn't figure out there is a platinum mine right next to it) enters it. :P
Same happens, as you pointed out, with the Broken Doors these days.

If a char would kill another one right at the counter, clearly obvious to Allelia, and even if its by only one single blow, this char had to go and hide and not come back any soon - and thats why I am not sure presence of GM guards alone could solve it all.

GM presence wouldn't solve "it all" but it would make a big deal to keep people aware that they may pop up any time. Or at least that it seemed to do when it was happening.
Given though that Xillix himself recommended asking for a GM intervention if such things should happen, I encourage people witnessing such "RP"s to certainly do so.


And just to point out, none of the three characters I play most often are lawful -at all-. But you know what? If they have to kill/rob/kidnap somebody they drag the target out of the guard's sight. Sounds simple enough.

[Anumesa]

I remember when the GM guards first made their appearance at the tavern. I was so incredibly frustrated after having RPed one of my characters going to the bar for a drink, and behind her broke out this incredibly epic battle. People were blasting spells back and forth, others were transforming into who knows what with multicolored eyes and hair and oh good god. It was the most epic l33t RP battle i have ever had the privilege of witnessing. Well, being the good citizen that she is, my character called for the guards (who presumably were just outside) several times and ended up having to just sit at the bar and listen to the noisy epicness behind her because they (the npcs and the battlers) completely ignored her calls.

Later on the GM guards made their first appearance and it was fantastic. I figured that would be the end to the end-of-the-world-omg-i-have-fire-shooting-out-of-my-eyeballs-battles in the tavern...guess not. I have been taking a break and havent been back lately but its a shame to hear that this is still happening. Mega kudos to the GM team though for implementing guards and taking the time to supplement RP in such good way. I still have hope that this will help correct the issue.

[Shaman]

I remember when the GM guards first made their appearance at the tavern. I was so incredibly frustrated after having RPed one of my characters going to the bar for a drink, and behind her broke out this incredibly epic battle. People were blasting spells back and forth, others were transforming into who knows what with multicolored eyes and hair and oh good god. It was the most epic l33t RP battle i have ever had the privilege of witnessing. Well, being the good citizen that she is, my character called for the guards (who presumably were just outside) several times and ended up having to just sit at the bar and listen to the noisy epicness behind her because they (the npcs and the battlers) completely ignored her calls.

This happened to one of my characters, as well. Despite countless calls for the (GM) guards, none came, and finally I had to /tell one about this, but he and his counterpart simply logged out without any call to arms. It seemed like more of a publicity thing than a method to stop these "epic" fights.

[Anumesa]

I think you misunderstood me, at the time there werent any GM guards yet..just the regular old npc ones standing outside. My point was that even though my character was clearly hollering for the guards who were standing just outside (and likely would have heard her), they still ignored their presence. Later on that day was the first time that GM guards were "implemented" i guess you could say, and THAT was cool 

[Velh Krome]

Provocatively I'd like to throw in, that roleplaying (thus respecting the Setting?) is not required but "only" encouraged - no need to take things that serious?

Btw, nice to see you around, Anu!

[Shaman]

Heh, suppose I did misunderstand. Regardless, the scene you layed out was about what happened when the GM guards left for the first time (that day).

[Candy]

the Gugrontid tavern would be fairly peaceful

Isnt the Gugrontid tavern meant to be without an owner and abandoned? Unless this has changed I wouldnt be surprised of peace in there 

Well, if you read the description of it (I don't remember quite where that's accessed from), it said it's run by volunteers last time I read it. If I wasn't busy with my current characters, I'd have an alt go up there with an inventory full of booze and food and play a volunteer bartender.

[Duraza]

Just three points I'd like to touch on.

I think evildoers could make use of dark alleys. They can watch out their victim in the tavern, and strike outside - what I think is silly is, to attack in front of numerous witnesses (including, and I am almost tired to mention it, Allelia).

And I would love to use dark alleys and sewers and trust me I have tried. Currently I only know of two players that willingly allow their characters to be lured to let themselves become trapped. If you want those kind of evil deeds to take part in shady places then you have to allow yourself to be vunerable. You have to allow yourself to walk through the alleyways, backstreets, sewers, etc where you can get hurt. I've yet to see this (not to imply that you or anyone else doesn't do it already) and if it doesn't happen you won't find any improvement.

I am fine with that - I am sure you yourself have seen dozens of stupid fights I refer to: Have you ever seen any single one who as well took the consequences of being caught by the law? You speak of sense, to be caught is a necessary part of that sense, almost everyone seems to ignore this, "inconvenient", part.

This you've got a big point with. I can't say I'm any different from the number of people who do ignore the big consequences like jail time or character deletion. Truthfully though I do so not because I'm trying to make myself out to be some great super strong roleplayer as you mentioned afterwards. I do it simply to keep a character around till a plot is fully over.

It really isn't 'good' roleplay as I should accept the consequences and I'll admit I'm wrong for it. However it isn't easy to have to accept the consequences every time you try to do something evil, have to delete your character, and then start again. If you don't accept them enough then your a bad roleplayer, if you accept them too much you might as well make a new character every day.

I know someone will say 'well wait in the sewers/etc for targets'. Sometimes the privacy those places offer for a killing is the exact opposite of what an evildoer wants to achieve in a plot. Many times places where the public are together are the places ideal for an attack, not for petty crime roleplays that do belong in private but for intricate plots that may require getting the publics attention in a different way.

It happens once. You can rob the pharmacy today and rob the bakery tomorrow.

I would love to rob the bakery and the pharmacy. Sadly it seems everyone only likes to go to the bakery so the pharmacy is empty for the robbing. In other words, if people move about crime wouldn't be focused in the same place 

Now with all of that said since it's pointless to sit around and argue as fighting solves nothing I'll make two promises. Firstly, I won't bring my evil roleplays into the tavern. No more hack and slash from any of my characters in Kada's. Secondly, when I need a public place I'll try and take my roleplays to other areas and cities. Oja is at the top of my list for this anyways. I hope this solves whatever piece of your problem I play into.