About why the tavern feels like a fight pit

[John80sk]

I'm not going to get in one of those quote battles tonight.

Basically I'm going to reiterate the points that I made as I don't think people quite got my meaning

First off the guards have been there forever and as long as I can remember haven't done anything about fights in the tavern.  Maybe they're lazy, maybe they don't care, maybe they're corrupt.  You can't really include them in roleplay, and they do nothing via game mechanics.  Don't think they can be considered part of the picture anymore.

Second off I don't think the problem is that this stuff isn't really just a problem with the tavern, it's a problem with the quality of player we have had of late in general.  Not sure what or if there's a solution to that one.

Part of what I was going on about I guess was also my disappointment in the fact that nobody uses any other tavern even though we now have two.  And the fact that even if the settings claim the tavern is a peaceful place, if it is not, then we can't simply ignore this fact in our roleplay.  I think a rowdy bustling place is a perfectly fine fit for a tavern.  As a matter of fact, I wouldn't mind seeing more fights in the tavern so long as they weren't just the result of the strange distortion of roleplay that the problems previously mentioned were creating.

[Mordraugion]

The argument that "Guards are there but dont do anything, therefore the guards aren't there" is fallacious and similar to the one used when I stopped a guild war in the plaza.

The settings decree that Yliakum is a cave inside a stalagtite, settings also has 2 guards outside the Tavern if you roleplay either as if they dont exist or dont behave as a cave or guard would then you are doing what is commonly called "godmodding".
Hydlaa is a largish town in an area rife with bandits and monsters and because of that has a large contingent of guards all sitting in their towers training and waiting if, Jefcra was to whistle he would be backed up with a squad within minutes. That is how you should be playing it, not "oh the Game mechs for active guards isnt in place yet or there aren't enough GMs so I'll do whatever I want"

[Entevir]

I can't wait for Jefcra to learn how to whistle.

But in all seriousness i would say that if everyone adopted to minimize to the bare bones their aggression inside the tavern then we would really only need to learn to petition. It's not hard at all. I write one every time i see someone with an inappropriate name. So why not write one when i see someone brawling i clear eyesight of the guards.
Just my two tria.

[Farren Kutter]

Well actually, you'd think Hydlaa would have fewer guards (Octarchial ones anyways) because the Bronze Doors are so nearby and would need more guards for the fortress, and thus they'd drain the resources of the Hydlaa guards. I'd imagine no more than 50 guards on duty at any given time in Hydlaa. Some on patrol, some, like Jefecra, outside buildings. it is hard to imagine twenty guards in every tower around hydlaa just sitting there fully awake and alert just waiting for something bad to happen. Firstly, I believe it to be unrealistic in the first place to have the two guards outside the tavern all the time. Sure, it has a lot of fights, etc. But there are more important places around the city that need more focused protection.

I'd say, maybe 2-3 guards in every guard tower at any given time, plus about 10 patrolling the city in different areas, plus maybe another 10-15 guarding important places, including the gates, with lookouts every so often on the walls of the city in case of danger. None at all would be in the Arena, nor in the temple dungeon. Or sewers, obviously.

I'd say the response time to an attack in the Tavern would be (if Jefecra weren't there) maybe 5-10 minutes. And then we must take into account how long 5-10 minutes takes in RP.

With my characters that happen to be 'evil' or 'criminals' I happen to run away at the sound of someone yelling for the guards. I respect the power of the guards, even had to explain to someone once that it was in no way possible for a person to beat a guard, especially more than one. Not yet anyways. I believe the RP with that thief who had that staff has shown us how powerful a guard's magic staff is. It can freeze a person in place easily and just about instantly. Guards would also be some of the most trained fighters in Yliakum.

I myself am guilty for fighting in the Tavern, but my characters are generally fighting those who end up going to jail (or running away). If no one calls the guards, and the guards aren't right there, no guards are going to come, and any epic battle can take place However, the tavern catching fire might be a bit of a sign

[Lyala]

But I's goes there to see if I's can find my mom's. I's do not want to be's hurt. Please make the bad mans go aways so little mes is safe.

[Velh Krome]

If no one calls the guards, and the guards aren't right there, no guards are going to come, and any epic battle can take place

When it comes to battling inside the tavern, I always assumed Allelia should be the first one to be upset and call for the guards. After all its her place to be burned down, exploded, taken apart and ripped down in the first place.
You certainly wouldnt fight in front of Jefecra, saying as long as no one will call him he wont interfere, or would you?

[Mordraugion]

dont forget all the other villages and towns (Ojaveda anyone?) in the area all supplying guards to the Bronze Doors, Hydlaa as the seat of government for the Dome would naturally have a larger fixed contingent of guards, the length of the walls alone would take 20+ guards to watch.

I've estimated (and could be wrong subject to settings :p ) from the number of houses that the population of Hydlaa is @5k if only 1% (double the current US law enforcement/pop %) are guards that makes 50

[Farren Kutter]

Didn't I say fifty...?


And Velh, yeah.... read the quote you quoted

If no one calls the guards, and the guards aren't right there, no guards are going to come, and any epic battle can take place

[Velh Krome]

I did read it properly I think. The point though is, to assume and accept NPCs are meant to act autonomously. Or would you say Allelia is that apathic that she would watch her interior gets broken and her place made a crime a scene?
I would modify it:

If no one calls the guards, and the guards aren't right there, and there are certainly no NPCs in range who would call for the guards, no guards are going to come, and any epic battle can take place

[khoridor]

Ignoring the laws just because enforcement is not implemented is an abuse, period.
There's not even a need to talk about the amount of guards and such things. "Godmodding" also includes the fact that Hydlaa is populated (although only a few NPCs are visible) and organised.
If a serious crime is to happen in the tavern, there would be witnesses, a call to guards, a crowd of spectators coming, and possibly arming themselves and lynching or chasing he culprit, the city gates would be closed, etc, etc. Escape would be extremely difficult, the best chances being hiding in the sewers for a long time.

So, a good plot can include killing in the tavern, but the consequences should be planned, and played as well, either a manhunt, hiding in a house, help from accomplices, etc.
A simple fight (like a brawl, no weapons and no spells) doesn't need so much planning, since the consequences are not so bad, but the brawlers should be fined, or even spend a night in jail, or something.
Now, setting fire to the tavern is just plain silly.

[Candy]

A crowd of citizens arming themselves would be told to put their weapons away by the guards once they arrive, Khoridor. ^^;

[khoridor]

That's why I wrote 'possibly'
And I won't explore every detailed scenario.
The point is, what we see is only a representation of the setting. But the setting is there.

[Mordraugion]

Didn't I say fifty...?

Your 50 was a maximum, mine was an absolute minimum

[Noriin]

It was a pleasant surprise to spot a couple of GM guards patrolling the Hammers' auction.

Thumbs up. \o/

[Coneitic]

simple fact is the majority of rp is held in the tavern. if you want to rp you go there first. saying hey if your going to be bad please go to this city over here and rp it and leave us alone. thats just nonsense. for one only bad guys would go there, or true rp'ers but still thats a small mount and its out of the way.

basically what your saying is you want all the bad stuff to happen outside of city away from everyone and it only happen to people who choose to go there and ask for it.

am i the only one that finds that ridiculous?

if we are led to believe that guards are there and we cannot do anything wrong.

then the devs must understand that guards wont be there 24/7 and that if someone wants to play the role of a thief or a murderer, then they are not going to go to a designated area and wait for someone to come by and say "please rob and kill me".

so deal with it. duraza had it right, just because there is guards doesnt mean nothing will happen there. and if you dont like real rp fights and attacks in an rp area then why rp?