Author Topic: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?  (Read 9637 times)

Raa

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2008, 10:04:04 pm »
I used to train a lot when I first started, but then I realized the grind sucked and the quests were crap, so I stopped. Plus, I got stuck on a quest because there was no effing way to figure it out by oneself. PS is definitely made by amateurs. Grueling grind not good. And I have a hard time believing the "grind to find bugs" thing. All this leveling makes people want to quit, not look for glitches.

ThomPhoenix

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2008, 10:58:06 pm »
Thanks for your input. We are continually working to make the flow of the game better and to make the quests less "crap" (more than you can imagine). And I assure you the team is not solely made out of amateurs. Try to go for more constructive criticism though ;)
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Nikodemus

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2008, 11:33:16 pm »
It is such a jungle up there, very discouraging to do anything at all to be honest. Barely anyone knows anything at all. From one side you hear the grinding is there to find bugs and then you hear it is not and the team is trying to make everything more fun instead. Then you feel even more uncertain, because you hear some words on how it is in game currently.
You can't say how devs are doing, what is their plan and if they are amateurs or not. If they are trying to make the game fun right now, or in 2 years when some unfun testing affecting all the players will be over.
Although i'm 100% sure the game has to develop in a way to be fun, eg with constant attempts to balance all its features, I don't know if there is any point to tell about it, because devs may already know it, or simply don't agree, what leaves me comletly powerless, leaving the ame unfun for the years to come.

In effect i don't know if there is any point to post, unless you want to come into argument with someone like you or read some idiot completly misunderstanding you, who create even bigger fuss



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Tuxide

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2008, 11:40:56 pm »
Well what kind of quests do you want to see?

In most other MMOs, quests fall into two or three categories with the first one always being "go kill 10 of something".  I've seen games where "questing" and "horrible grind" are synonymous:  Most quests will ask you to go kill 20 buttmonsters, with the next quest being to go collect 20 butts from buttmonsters.

zanzibar

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2008, 02:29:09 am »
I used to train a lot when I first started, but then I realized the grind sucked and the quests were crap, so I stopped. Plus, I got stuck on a quest because there was no effing way to figure it out by oneself. PS is definitely made by amateurs. Grueling grind not good. And I have a hard time believing the "grind to find bugs" thing. All this leveling makes people want to quit, not look for glitches.

I think on test servers for other games, you grind less... mobs give 1,000 times the experience, etc.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 03:02:50 am by zanzibar »
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Under the moon

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2008, 04:18:53 am »
PlaneShift: Made by amateur Devs for amateur players. And a few immature ones as well. ;)

Tontow

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2008, 05:10:00 am »

In PS, as it is designed to be, no character levels, just skills.  Depending on surroundings and other factors, a person with a skill level of 1 in sword combat can still defeat another character with a sword skill of 9000, if that person is proficient in another type of combat skill.   


Hmmmm.  A lvl 30 sword fighter vs a lvl 30 axe fighter.  Wait a sec?  A lvl 30 fighter vs a lvl 30 fighter?!?!?!?  Believe it or not, there really isn't a difference between Character lvl and skill lvl; when I go to mine, I consider my character an X lvl miner, when I go to fight, I consider my character an X lvl fighter when using X weapon type.
Also, PS requires a short grind to complete some quests.  (IE: crafting books - steel stock, lvl a combat skill to get X animal part)



As far as questing, It would be nice if there was some way to indicate that an NPC has a quest that you have NEVER done befor - I have done quite a few quests and now I find myself repeating a few and its hard to find new quest content when/if its added.
That active spell quest requirement thingy still dose sound neat though.  \\o//
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khoridor

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2008, 05:15:03 am »
First, I'll explain how I play, to give a perspective from my character, that will be different from that of a leveler for example: I try to find a place in Yliakum's society (basically, a trade). I quest a lot, for the fun of it (the quests are far from crap; I can see how they are evolving, and it's going to be great). And I RP constantly (meet people as you meet your townsfolk in RL, and see where it leads).

I do need to train skills to achieve that. Since my character creation main skill is not implemented, I have chosen to repair weapons, because I found that not many people do so. And I also keep practicing mining. I therefore grind rather slowly, not focusing on it for too long at a time. For example, I stop by a gold mine each time I travel near one and to a town; for the sake of grinding, I could just dig iron, as it is much faster for some reason. I did it once, as an OOC testing session.

By training slowly and intermittently, I don't find grinding boring and I think that the progress pace is rather good. Except for combat: I once gave an alto 30 levels of both sword and armor in 1 game session. But for other skills, I find it ok.That is because I don't spend my time only on training. Roughly, I alternate chatting, questing, mining and repairing (although the latter is 99% fighting to damage weapons). I find the training extremely unbalanced, but that's another story, that doesn't affect the answer to the original question. Limit yourself, and not only does the pace feel right, but also things are not so mindless and repetitive. For example, I try to always have a magical armor when I travel in the wild, but I don't cumulate the spellcasting (unlike I did for my first levels). I stopped metallurgy at steel stock level, so I do need to meet people to deal with my gold; and yes, considering my time zone, that means that I do sell it to Trasok or Harnquist sometimes, since their places can be very empty.
As I ran out of quests, my routine has been more centered on training lately; but I won't spend hours doing the same thing, so the only result is that I play less, give myself excuses to change town, and revisit all the NPCs one by one. I don't think a MMORPG is the kind of game designed to be played 12 hours a day for 2 weeks anyway; more like once in a while over a long period, and even with breaks.

So, no, I don't interact less while grinding. On the contrary. When I interact less is when I'm running between places and when I'm focused on the NPC chat tab. I chat the most at mines and smiths, and sometimes when meeting a resting traveler.
Now, when I'm at a mine (mostly Oja gold), or at a smith, it's often all silent, even when it's crowded. I always make some noise, but rarely get an answer. People always answer a call for help on the other hand, proving that they are not deaf. Well, if it is that boring, and if one can watch a movie at the same time, I'm starting to understand. Indeed, the issue is fun, and that's not an easy one to solve. I've also heard, and experienced to a degree, that a lot of windows need to be open, which keep crafters isolated in their bubble. Maybe working on that aspect would help some of them, give them more PlaneShift immersion than GUI immersion?

My point of view will never match that of a pure leveler. There's no way a system can provide the same pace for a mechanics-bound RPer like me, and for a duelist (RPer or not) who wants to quickly boost his skills to have fun with PvPs. This doesn't affect the old characters interaction issue anyway. Grinders can chat as much as anyone else, if they want to. And for the one who doesn't want to, it doesn't matter if he is digging plat or cooking apples; leave him be.

elachlan

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2008, 01:09:22 pm »
From memory most other MMORPG's with a medieval setting have bosses, EQ/FF/WOW/LOTRO etc... So why don't we have bosses..With phat loot? That would add another dimension to the game. Make another town where there is a cave nearby where a giant <insert creepy thing here> is reeking havoc on the town. Do that and you will probably halve the amount of people at the platinum mine. (hey you could even use the instance thing you talked about in the google tech talk).

Tuxide

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2008, 09:27:02 pm »
Maybe if there was a realistic way to do this.  I've seen games where boss mobs are named and are set on two hour timers, they drop unique items, and killing them is required to complete quests.  What happens is that people farm them and camp their spawns either to make money or to grief, and then others get frustrated when they can't find the items or complete the quests they need.  Also I just think it's unrealistic for a named NPC to be killable every two hours.  There is Brigand and people camp his spawn and kill him over and over again.

h34th

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2008, 10:07:00 pm »
The grind in PS does not bother me, with the exception that it goes straight up with no opportunities to choose abilities that further customize your character as you progress. And the infinite diminishing returns as you go further and further. Insofar as the monsters in PS are unique from spawn to spawn, we already have bosses. Some give one type of loot, et cetera. Eventually all the monsters will move, the tribes system will be working, and we will have monsters that appear at certain dates and times. Until that time we have placeholder mobs that stay in one place. Yes, of course people are going to camp them. What should they do, ask them out to a movie and dinner?




Pizik

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2008, 10:14:58 pm »
PS does have bosses, they just arent named. In the past Ulbers were the "Boss Mobs", most needed groups or considerable skill to kill one, but since skill caps have been raised they are no longer a concern to most and became a simple mob to be killed. Dlayo was the replacement  "Boss Mob" I believe, and im not sure if these are being farmed as much as Ulbers were, maybe its because they are faster and grouping to kill doesnt work as well.

I would love to see instanced dungeons worked on for PS, some that functioned in much the same way WoW uses them. Just a portal/door you enter, get moved to your own instanced dungeon and then require a group of others to help. I find the lack of group challenges a major down side of PS, and it's inclusion would be a major boost imo. There are some limiting factors, like mobs killed in PS instances being killed in all other instances (Fixed?) and the lack of a more comprehensive Threat Dynamic for mobs, plus a lack of suitable healing spells for such a thing.

Anyway, im sure someone can come up with better ideas for these things than myself. Maybe we should have an instanced dungeon thread?
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Tuxide

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2008, 10:39:15 pm »
I thought I read in a Talad interview somewhere that instanced dungeons were not planned.

Shaman

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2008, 10:49:09 pm »
The problem with instanced dungeons is that quests may require you to go into the instance and get the "head of badguy x", when so many other people have already done the quest, gone into the instance, and killed the same person. People won't be able to resist roleplaying that they killed the same person as you.

Pizik

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Re: Can someone remind me why we added such a grind to PlaneShift?
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2008, 10:53:09 pm »
No Instance Dungeons = No Boss Mobs

If something drops good loot it will be farmed for eternity. As you stated, it already happened with mobs in the game. Those that are relatively easy but give an unbalanced amount of EXP compared to their dificulty. Not having Instances is an odd idea imo.

@Shaman:

I would never suggest that a Boss Mob would be called "Invar The Plunderer" or some such thing in PS, but Ravenous Ulbernaut, only reachable by killing your way through the Instanced Dungeon. That would validate it in RP terms. "Go forth to the caves near the Bronze Doors and bring me back the Egg Sac of a Queen Trepor" or whatever
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