Author Topic: Melee  (Read 1056 times)

Zontick

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Melee
« on: November 26, 2008, 07:53:00 pm »
I'm referencing this thread ( http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=19688.0  -- since I cannot seem to post a response; perhaps it is locked)

A lot of good points were made in the thread, and I'd like to add my 2 cents.

I'm new to PlaneShift, and I picked melee/Kran because of the monk option on character creation. A stone monk is a pretty cool idea. And I never expected a walk in the park; no monk character is ever easy to play. Fun, yes. Easy? No.

So here's the thing: While weapon based combat is, obviously, advantageous, the truth of the matter is that melee ranking requires a character to... do comparable training and have comparable experience to that of those who use weapons. In much the same way, light armor versus heavy armor means the same. If a character runs around beating on NPCs who have crusty shells, or who are using weapons (such as rogues, mercenaries, gladiators... whatever else I have not found yet...), then the character should be expected to hold it's own against a character of comparable level which uses weapons.

It's a matter of relativity.

Melee isn't quite there yet. A melee character should progress to levels where maybe there aren't 'death blows', but there could be critical strikes. A 'flurry of blows' is to be expected; melee doesn't have the speed penalty that weapon users get. And no, they shouldn't hit all the time. But trying to hit makes sense.

Melee isn't an easy thing to deal with in game because of the many perspectives on it. Weapon using characters will always find a reason to say melee is a waste. Melee users will always say that melee should do more. The truth is somewhere in between.

Personally, I think melee should have at least 2 times as many levels as weapon based. And the upper levels should be increasingly difficult to attain - unique quests (once done, no one else can do them), that sort of thing.

But then, I have no idea how melee was originally seen to be implemented. I came with my own ideas ingame, and they don't work the same - no surprise. Even so, melee does seem to need some love - but that love has to be balanced. As someone who almost always plays melee or sword in different games, I know melee shouldn't be uberpowerful unless at very high levels. But in the same token, if you're going to let people advance in melee by doing the same things that others do... shouldn't they expect that melee be more comparable to weaponry?

There is reality, there are expectations. But I'm in it for the fun. I want melee to be more fun. I think it could be done, akin to magic.

Tuxide

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Re: Melee
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2008, 08:05:40 pm »
Melee does not necessarily mean unarmed.  For example, spiked shield is supposed to be a melee weapon.

Melee
Used for: Iron fist, slayer armor, spiked shield, steel claws, thorn helm and unarmed combat.
Description: The close combat skill. When no weapons are available, this is your fighting skill.
Advantages: Easy to learn and fast to use.
Disadvantages: Less effective for defense and more expensive equipment.

Zontick

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Re: Melee
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2008, 08:14:55 pm »
Melee does not necessarily mean unarmed.  For example, spiked shield is supposed to be a melee weapon.

Melee
Used for: Iron fist, slayer armor, spiked shield, steel claws, thorn helm and unarmed combat.
Description: The close combat skill. When no weapons are available, this is your fighting skill.
Advantages: Easy to learn and fast to use.
Disadvantages: Less effective for defense and more expensive equipment.


Yes, but the documentation appears to be a requirements spec. Granted, this is a beta, but the documentation should be more close to the reality in game at this time. I don't mind, as I'm willing to work with a handicapped character until such time that things are rolled out - but a lot of people may feel disappointment when they find their expectations cannot be lived up to at this time.

Incidentally - will slayer armor be light armor or medium armor or heavy armor? Classic melee would probably be light armor. It would suck to train light armor to dodge blows only to require heavy armor training to use some of the melee weapons. Perhaps that, too, should be documented.

h34th

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Re: Melee
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2008, 08:39:29 pm »
As of right now, there are no sort of special attack abilities in the combat system. I would imagine that these are planned. But right  now its you try to hit, they try to hit, you try to hit, they try to hit, et cetera. Monk is also one of the first that I try to play in any game, due to the reasons that you mentioned.

Sen

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Re: Melee
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2008, 10:19:45 pm »
Choosing melee (or even unarmored/melee as myself) doesn't seem to be a wise decision. In this thread (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32275.0) are some points for and against it, but as non-pvp fighter I can see melee still only as underpowered and not really as option to take in ps.
Thinking on easier movement (!) and many ways to take someone's weapon away who don't hit with the first strike I can only hope that someone will have a look at it and change it to something that is (apart from pvp maybe) not only filled with disadvantages.

So... full ack on changes on melee ;)

</rant>
Sen
.....also a saddle that won't pinch the tail. One day!

Zontick

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Re: Melee
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2008, 12:49:26 am »
Choosing melee (or even unarmored/melee as myself) doesn't seem to be a wise decision. In this thread (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32275.0) are some points for and against it, but as non-pvp fighter I can see melee still only as underpowered and not really as option to take in ps.
Sen

Well, the argument I got from the thread was...

Quote from: "Zan" link=topic=19688.msg216102#msg216102
Now if the guy with the weapon has any kind of armor on your chances are getting slimmer. You\'ll probably have more luck pounding through a brick wall than hurting someone wearing full plate armor with your fists and feet.

I have a distinct feeling that people don't understand... attacking anyone in full plate armor with any weapon requires a high degree of skill. Swords, axes, maces and urban assault vehicles can only rattle what is inside to a point. The belief that a sword is more effective than a fist against plate armor is kind of like believing in Santa Claus. There is nothing wrong with believing in Santa Claus, but I have yet to see Santa Claus in PlaneShift...  :whistling:

The same rules apply. Weak points in the armor are how one beats the opponent - not by thwacking away at the strongest part of the armor.

Perhaps people are mistaking plate armor for something covering their car, if their car was built after the 1970s...

So - again. Melee. If a sword can damage someone in a shell of plate armor, then I do believe a melee attack should too.

However, a 'Melee of Seduction' does sound pretty kinky...  :woot: