Get rid of the Wish List forum?

[zanzibar]

Someone made a wish, then this was posted in reply...

make a feature request on the bug tracker if you really want this ingame

If the wish list doesn't get used / is in the way / is less efficient than the bug tracker, maybe we should get rid of the wish list forum?

It would be pretty easy to do and we wouldn't have to delete anything.  Just make it so only devs have permission to post there, then make a thread with the title "Do you have a request for a feature?  Read this first." and that thread would be a manual on the bug tracker.  I don't use the bug tracker myself so I don't know how long the manual would have to be, but it seems to be the most convenient way of doing things from what people say.

[Garris Shrike]

My humble opinion is to keep it around, and here's my flame-able reason:

The wish list forum is for wishes of implementation. The BUG TRACKER (BUGs, mind you!) is for tracking BUGS or GLITCHES and ERRORS in the game. IF it is in fact true that the bug tracker is for whatever little desire that pops into your head, then sure, knock off the wish list forum.

If it's not, then don't direct us to the bug tracker for everything regarding the game.

[Shaman]

Yep, I agree. Everything gets directed to the "bug" tracker, making the Wish List forum pointless.

[zanzibar]

If you created a new category on the bug tracker (call it "wish" or something) then they would stay separate from the bugs.

This would also help make sure that people don't make suggestions until they've been around for a while.  Too often, we get new people who come in and say a bunch of stuff without becoming a part of the community first.  It would also mean that suggestions come from people with more technical skill, so they aren't just people who like playing games, they're people who know more about the details and behind-the-scenes stuff.

[Prolix]

The wish list is useful for kicking around ideas that are only partly formed and for settings related ideas that might easily be adopted. You certainly can use the bug tracker for feature requests but ideaswhich are poorly thought out or presented are likely to be completely ignored. Often feature requests take some time to even be marked as new which is seemingly automatic for the category, they do not need to be confirmed the way bug reports do.

If you notice not all the wish list threads get directed to the bug tracker as feature requests and here is my interpretation of why: If one of the developers who actually frequents the forum see something that is relatively new and seems viable they will make a comment to post it on the tracker. That doesn't mean other ideas are particularly bad or this idea is guaranteed to go anywhere, it just means that at the time it struck them as fresh and reasonable.

Now as the news of the day says if you do not use the tracker you have no right to complain, it would be good if more people actually learned how to use the tracker, it is not difficult. At the same time if you are too timid to use it, posting in the wish list sometimes results in someone like me posting your idea on the tracker. This would not seem to be too optimal for you as I will likely write it in a way that suits me, but then I also usually link the wish list thread to what I post so your view will not be completely lost.

[zanzibar]

So if you have an idea that you believe in, why not just post it on the bug tracker and skip the wish list bit?

[Prolix]

To see if it truly is a worthwhile idea. For example: I think that kran being rock creatures ought to be able to walk through the ground like other races walk through water.
If I post such an idea on the tracker I am wasting the developer's (lanorel or caarie, most likely) time, it is never going to happen. If I post it to the wish list then half a dozen people will shoot it down, possibly one or two developers, and it does not clutter up the tracker database. Also it might trigger an unrelated thought in someone else that might be viable. As well the feedback I get might make me refine my idea to something more viable such as, perhaps: there should be a brown way spell that allows people to pass through solid stone with kran passing easier due to their rock-like nature. It may not get implemented any more than the previous version would but it is somewhat more realistic a request.

[Xanthan]

There is value in discussion on many ideas.  Particularly if they might need fleshing out, or if you want encourage brainstorming.  A discussion forum is better suited to that than a bug tracker. 

[ThomPhoenix]

I think you should post your wish on the wish list forum first. This because 99% of the wishes are incredibly complicated features that are actually games on their own. If anything good is found, it can be put on the Bug Tracker, because it's more official and dev-accessible there. And yes, bugtrackers are also used for feature requests. Everyone does that, we're not weird in that aspect.

Some feature requests go to the tracker immediately, because they're smaller and Just Make Sense (most wishes don't).

[Orgonwukh]

Finally someone responded to my question from here: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=34228.msg393782#msg393782
Thank you.
However, I think we have to rely on the devs' judgement about the difficulty of implementation. It would be nice if they could tell us when a feature request has been discussed enough or is simple enough to post it on bugtracker. In the past something similar once happened when someone already posted it on bugtracker while we still were discussing it here. It seems some synchronisation would not be that bad.

[Zontick]

To see if it truly is a worthwhile idea. For example: I think that kran being rock creatures ought to be able to walk through the ground like other races walk through water.
If I post such an idea on the tracker I am wasting the developer's (lanorel or caarie, most likely) time, it is never going to happen. If I post it to the wish list then half a dozen people will shoot it down, possibly one or two developers, and it does not clutter up the tracker database. Also it might trigger an unrelated thought in someone else that might be viable. As well the feedback I get might make me refine my idea to something more viable such as, perhaps: there should be a brown way spell that allows people to pass through solid stone with kran passing easier due to their rock-like nature. It may not get implemented any more than the previous version would but it is somewhat more realistic a request.

And yet, people get pushed to the bugtracker. It's right there, as plain as day. Consistency would be nice. 

[Prolix]

So would a little common sense.

I re-iterate:

If you notice not all the wish list threads get directed to the bug tracker as feature requests and here is my interpretation of why: If one of the developers who actually frequents the forum see something that is relatively new and seems viable they will make a comment to post it on the tracker. That doesn't mean other ideas are particularly bad or this idea is guaranteed to go anywhere, it just means that at the time it struck them as fresh and reasonable.

Also notice that some ideas essentially get talked about in multiple threads over the years yet never make it to the bug tracker. This is another instance where you might get the "post it to the tracker" admonition.

Personally I do not get upset if a developer says to post an idea on the tracker, nor should anyone else, I think.

[zanzibar]

Not upset.  Just looking for ways to make it easier for people to contribute.

[khoridor]

It's easy. Got an idea you want to discuss? Use the wish list. Then if a dev suggests to make a feature request, that means your material is good enough as it is. If you think your idea is good enough from the start, go straight to the bugtracker.

[Zontick]

So would a little common sense.

Wow... just... wow. That seems over the line.

Personally I do not get upset if a developer says to post an idea on the tracker, nor should anyone else, I think.

It's not a matter of becoming upset. It's a matter of the discussion still taking place and ideas still being bounced around. Is that too early for the bug tracker?

Honestly, it does seem like a post is made, a few people get in on it, and before you can say shazam - 'please post on bugtracker'.

The response does seem sensible, other than the 'common sense' bit, but in practice it doesn't seem functional.