Merry Xiosiamas

[Mythryndel]

I support you Xillix, and not as a shameless attempt to suck up... you know I will tell you when I think you are wrong. I simply do not remember... what was the outcry about OOC Halloween events a couple months ago... you mean there wasn't? Why not? It corresponded with a RL holiday too... people got to wear costumes (I ran around as a Maulbernaut for a few hours)... An obstacle course in DR... all kinds of really fun things... how was this different? Now a bunch of people can experience new things in the game for themselves. This event wasn't as dramatic in presentation as the Halloween event, but will have a more lasting effect.

I'm sorry, but the real issue here seems to simply be that some people got really nice stuff, and others didn't. The same as the guild house auction... the same as most of the RPer vs PLer "flamewars" that go on here on the forums. I'm starting to believe that you simply can't please everyone... no matter how hard you try.

In the spirit of full-disclosure.. I was not on for this event. I was wrapping presents and trying to get a couple hours sleep before my kids woke me up. I am also not bitter in any way for those that received gifts. There are still things they will have to work for in-game, just like the rest of us.

[Timmothy Perriwinkle]

I differ from you in that I support XilliX as a shameless attempt to suck up. <3

[Mythryndel]

To each his own...

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

I strongly reject the name Xiosiamas being used in game. This should never be used or considered an IC use of language within planeshift. "Xiosia's Coming" or anything else not linking to earthly religions or nomenclature is better.

[Prolix]

a deity could do something like this any day. I just thought it would be a nice gesture on the holiday.

See this IS out of context if not necessarily out of character. I personally do not have any real problem with this event or others as I mostly ignore them anyway for various reasons. Does that statement mean we can expect similar giveaways on other days that have no particular real life significance, say January 11, May 13 or October 2? Perhaps you could have an event one day where the Black Flame wanders around in disguise cursing everyone he passes or randomly rearranging their abilities. Would that be more suited to Dakkru or is there another as yet unrevealed god in charge of chaos?

The main reason I avoid events is that I dislike crowds. But since the character I play generally has little use for the gods, this was one I did not go out of my way to investigate.

How about "The Flowering of Xiosia's Benevolence"

[Dajoji]

(...) Does that statement mean we can expect similar giveaways on other days that have no particular real life significance, say January 11, May 13 or October 2? (...)

Exactly.

[Prolix]

hehe, fooled you, one of those is my birthday

[Orgonwukh]

The gods are supposed to have a more palpable presence in the character's lives.

This is one of the reason I am so opposed to atheism in game.

I play my char according to settings. Diabolis are hurt by holy items, and hence my char was an atheist. I could choose this option at character creation. Now, I am apposed to atheism in game, too. It does not make much sense anymore. The only possiblity is to question the divinity, but not the existence of the so-called gods. I am not sure if this can be called atheism.

For those of you who are upset by this and telling the leader of the settings team that this action was damaging to the game I ask you: are you really in a position to determine for me how the settings work?

No. You are the boss. Actually I mainly asked about how the settings should work in that case. At the moment I am trying to answer my own questions by using common sense and trying to play my character according to settings. I am struggling a lot though. I am still surprised that noone else has this problem.

What is the real crux of your argument?

Roleplaying according to settings concerning Xiosia now is more difficult. The motivations of the event were unclear (until now, you explained it above with 'The gods are supposed to have a more palpable presence in the character's lives.').

What is it that you find so bad about a god showing up?

It forces me to abruptly change my characters view of the world I built up for a long time.

Did xiosia tread on your idea of the world?

Yes.

This was solely my responsibility.

Do not blame gms or other devs, blame xillix.

Will do. I appreciate your explanations and motivations and that you ask for feedback, Xillix. Thank you.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

The manner in which your character's life was complicated should be a GOOD thing for you as a developing character forced (like in real life) to adapt to a changing world and grant you more role play possibilities. Arguments with atheists should be a bit more lively now.

As for follow up events . . . stay tuned . . . (btw I make a prediction here: some people will not like the events, they will be very vocal about them, some will pout, some will threaten to quit the game, and some will just have a good time. The community complains when nothing happens and it complains when anything happens, it is getting harder and harder to take complaints seriously for me.)

[Orgonwukh]

The manner in which your character's life was complicated should be a GOOD thing for you as a developing character forced (like in real life) to adapt to a changing world and grant you more role play possibilities. Arguments with atheists should be a bit more lively now.

Currently acting, responding, adapting. And yes, it is lively, although I still wonder why almost noone ICly thinks those events are an outstanding change of the world (those who followed Xiosia before excluded).
(No more complains from me, I think I posted them all here already.)

[Gravemind]

I play my char according to settings. Diabolis are hurt by holy items, and hence my char was an atheist. I could choose this option at character creation. Now, I am apposed to atheism in game, too. It does not make much sense anymore. The only possiblity is to question the divinity, but not the existence of the so-called gods. I am not sure if this can be called atheism.

On the contrary, you obviously didn't read the description of 'Atheism' when you picked it in character creation.

Let me refresh your memory-

"Despite the obvious presence of Gods and Godesses throughout Yliakum, some deny that these beings are worthy of worship. Most people consider atheists foolish at best and a condemned object of pity at worst. Atheists will bear the worst effects of the penalty for dying since no god will grant them succor from it"

The definition of IRL atheism has never had anything to do with planeshift atheism.

Seriously dude how the hell did you manage to make it through 2 years of the game without learning this? XD

On a final note, I find it hard to believe your character has never died in those 2 years. Atheist dead = permadeath, no second chances

[Sen]

Atheists will bear the worst effects of the penalty for dying since no god will grant them succor from it"
[...]
Atheist dead = permadeath, no second chances

Sorry for 
I personally don't read it as permadeath - for me it sounds like Atheists have to bear the full effect of Dakkru's curse

Sen

[LigH]

I won't argue with you, Xillix. On one hand, because I feel easily narrowed when it comes to that. On the other hand, because public criticizm is not allowed for staff. I will just write a few questions here. No matter if you will answer them or not, they shall just express my doubts, and my sorrows how this all is currently "developing"... Being still in contact with people who already left PlaneShift, or expressed doubts already, my point of view may have a different angle than yours.

• Once we have been proud that PlaneShift was a game where roleplaying was preferred, a cooperative community supported. Is this still the case, or did the "roleplaying support" turn into just an advertizing slogan?
• How much do developers know about the structure of Yliakum's people? Do they know any guilds without querying a database? Can they separate them by purpose, age, activity, renown?
• How much time spend developers playing? How many characters do they play rather regularly?
• How important are players as owners of characters with a virtual life? With a purely technical view - are those players more "valuable" who limit their activities to using the game mechanics only, and are merely "freelance testers"?
• If atheism is not welcome, why are people punished in the character creation with a removal of character points when chosing any religion, except atheism?
• Is the Settings department the only authority over the game rules, with a kind of "jester's license", or is Luca Pancallo still the person with the last decision?
• How many different people are involved before an event like a house auction is decided, planned, and started? How many were asked for their opinions before a decision was made?
• What is the most useful way to get in contact with the people who are responsible for this game, to get opinions shared?

As I already mentioned, I don't expect answers in this thread. But I expect the development team to realise that such kind of doubts are dangerous, regarding "public relations".

I like to take part in the development. I like to help *us* fixing bugs and other issues. But first and foremost, I like to play the game. With my friends. And I hate losing any of them.

[Lhaa]

On a final note, I find it hard to believe your character has never died in those 2 years. Atheist dead = permadeath, no second chances

This is complete nonsense. Seriously dude.

* Lhaa bites on another lemon.

I expect the development team to realise that such kind of doubts are dangerous, regarding "public relations".

I like to take part in the development. I like to help *us* fixing bugs and other issues. But first and foremost, I like to play the game. With my friends. And I hate losing any of them.

Yes, that drives me nuts as well.

Regarding public relations: It seems apparent that having the devs do such public relations isn't benefiting neither the devs nor the players.
Players will unavoidably get eventually disappointed, when one is not the other will be and vice versa, can't make everybody happy.
And the devs certainly do have enough work to do improving the game to spend their time reading to our complains.
We've seen Karyuu growing bitter, we've seen Xillix growing bitter. Perhaps somebody else other than the devs should be indeed doing the public relations before stuff like this happens.

btw I make a prediction here: some people will not like the events, they will be very vocal about them, some will pout, some will threaten to quit the game, and some will just have a good time. The community complains when nothing happens and it complains when anything happens, it is getting harder and harder to take complaints seriously for me.)

Let the devs work in the game (which is what they do best) and have somebody else with a lot of patience do most of the dealing with the players.
I assume being a troll myself most of the time, but there is no reason why there shouldn't be somebody else trained to deal with people like me.

[Arerano]

I think Laanx should have smitten Xiosia who dared to intrude into "Laanx's city" and tried (with success) to bribe the citizen with shiny gifts to follow her "religion of nature". Xiosia gave glyphs too, yet I would have believed that those are rather gifts Talad would make. Xiosia gave a house, something I would believe the Octarch to give as a gift but not the godess of nature... I would even dare to say that those who follow "the way of nature" may happily live in the nature, as natural as possible - balanced and in unison with the nature.

Did those who got gifts actually have Xiosia faction points? (I am still very pro quests wipe.)

Maybe it would actually be interesting to see two gods at once.. them interacting with people and with each another. Just PLEASE don't chose any day with real-life relevance the next time!

And this is what I want to share too: (from IRC)

[21:14:01] XilliX [n=IceChat7@planeshift/setting/leader/xillix] joined the channel
[21:14:18] <XilliX> Arerano_Areramau I want to know what the core of your argument against the xiosia event is
[21:14:31] <XilliX> I want to understand why you think it was so bad
[22:07:34] <Arerano_Areramau> in short: you made a good example concerning 'mixing IC and OOC' being perfectly fine by having "X-mas" be "Xiosia-mas". Such real-life-occasions should not influence IC things rather even be be the "most normal IC days" of all.
[22:10:01] <Arerano_Areramau> To stress that IC and OOC must not be mixed at all. As if there aren't enough players who don't understand (or care) about this.
[22:12:19] <Arerano_Areramau> but that's a mere fraction anyway.
[22:15:39] <Vonoff> you should highlight his name, Arerano_Areramau
[22:17:25] <Arerano_Areramau> instead of highlighting my name and telling me to highlight his name, you could have done it directly. :P
[22:17:33] Arerano_Areramau highlights XilliX
[22:20:32] <XilliX> I don't think I did that at all
[22:20:49] <XilliX> just because it happened on christmas doesn't mean it was christmas in game
[22:20:57] <XilliX> I did not call it xiosiamass
[22:21:05] <XilliX> and I didn't have a beard and a red suit
[22:21:28] <Arerano_Areramau> ok, even if you did not call it that, it still proves that people associate it with "christmas".
[22:21:42] <XilliX> I think you bring the OOC into the event
[22:21:42] <XilliX> by saying such things
[22:22:26] <XilliX> I don't find that to be the case really. Players are responsible for separating OOC and IC
[22:22:49] <XilliX> the only thing that happened IC is xiosia showed up and gave some wishes to people
[22:23:05] <XilliX> and the event was rped
[22:23:12] <XilliX> and it was a real event
[22:23:15] <XilliX> in settings
[22:23:28] <XilliX> it should open oppourtunities for roleplay
[22:23:33] <XilliX> not shut them down
[22:24:01] <XilliX> I expect a surge in xiosia worship
[22:24:06] <XilliX> which is good for the game
[22:24:25] <XilliX> everyone running around worshipping no one is OOC as all hell
[22:24:38] <XilliX> that is people bringing out of game beliefs into play
[22:25:31] <XilliX> I see you consider yourself an rp purist
[22:25:34] <XilliX> and that is great!
[22:25:44] <XilliX> I am not without experience with rp
[22:25:47] <XilliX> ;)
[22:25:55] <Arerano_Areramau> it's ridiculous to say "it just happened on christmas and not because it was christmas".
[22:26:04] <XilliX> why so?
[22:26:21] <XilliX> it did happen because it was christmas
[22:26:25] <XilliX> but I don't see the harm
[22:26:28] <XilliX> at all
[22:26:34] <XilliX> it wasn't christmas in game
[22:26:44] <Arerano_Areramau> but Xiosiamas.
[22:26:46] <XilliX> at no point did I say "ho ho ho"
[22:27:03] <XilliX> Arerano_Areramau it was not Xiosiamas either
[22:27:11] <XilliX> that is some cute name someone said
[22:27:15] <Arerano_Areramau> players made it "Xiosiamas"
[22:27:22] <XilliX> why get distraught by that?
[22:27:44] <Arerano_Areramau> you say it does no harm, yes, it does, for those with lesser understanding of the IC/OOC differences MIX IT UP
[22:29:06] <Arerano_Areramau> and they think it's fine too.
[22:29:52] <XilliX> Arerano_Areramau teach them
[22:30:17] <XilliX> it really isn't a harm, it is a chance to learn
[22:30:44] <XilliX> Arerano_Areramau if you have ever played DnD ooc/ic shit gets mixed up ALL THE TIME
[22:30:50] <XilliX> it is impossible to police
[22:31:06] <XilliX> the best to hope for is honest effort to separate the two
[22:31:45] <Arerano_Areramau> impossible to police indeed, but that doesn't mean that one has to "support" the mixing up.
[22:31:57] <XilliX> I don't support the mixing it up
[22:32:10] <XilliX> I do support doing something nice for christmas
[22:32:13] <XilliX> :)
[22:37:55] <Arerano_Areramau> Well, maybe we can have turkeys for thanksgiving in planeshift and it wouldn't be "taking OOC into IC" unless we call it thanksgiving in-game because IC this can be just any day of the year.
[22:42:16] <XilliX> Kikiri Arerano_Areramau
[22:42:18] <XilliX> kikiri
[22:42:48] <Arerano_Areramau> and only those who say "hey, that's taking OOC into the game", actually do take OOC to IC.
[22:43:19] <XilliX> you seem just sooooo mad about it
[22:43:25] <XilliX> and I just don't get it
[22:43:43] <XilliX> let it go, don't be a scrooge about it.
[22:44:07] <Arerano_Areramau> as said, that's only a fraction anyway.
[22:45:10] <XilliX> A fraction of what?
[22:48:40] <XilliX> http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34441.30 I made a second post just for you
[22:48:52] XilliX [n=IceChat7@planeshift/setting/leader/xillix] left the channel


[ edit: used "tt" instead of "code" ]