Planeshift Birth Announcement

[Tuxide]

Prolix as stated earlier there will be changes to the forums.

I am really looking forward to this, I want to advertise my <Banker> guild.  Oh, and please join it.

[Vengeance]

At the risk of stirring up the s*** more, I'd like to make a point about the statement "This game was created for RP."  I've been on the project since 2001, so I was here pretty early.  I've *never* RPed in my life and I've *never* been interested in that aspect of the game in the least.  I don't mind if people like roleplaying and I was supportive of letting them do that, but it was certainly never a priority for me.  I've taken the position since the early days that we should have features for RPers and features for PLers and everyone in between, and that there is no reason they can't co-exist.  Well, afaic that experiment has failed.  The RPers and others cannot co-exist because the RPers can't tolerate people asking questions on how to play without brackets, can't tolerate funny names, can't tolerate people saying OMGLOLZ.

Ok the co-existence experiment has failed.  Now we know why every commercial MMO has separate servers for RP and non-RP players.  Fair enough.  We'll do the same thing and make both sides happy.

Did the PLers ever complain about the RPers getting in their way or spamming their chats?  If they did, I never heard it.  The complaints all went one way.  And here again, the complaints go one way.  If we had said we were forcing the RPers to go to the 2nd server, can you imagine the outcry?  So we say we will preserve Laanx for that, since the RPers are already there and such a strong RP community, and PLers have to move--and the RPers get upset about that too.

We tried co-existence.  Co-existence failed.  We're making a 2nd server, and as PS grows I'm sure we will add dozens more.  Get used to it.

p.s. Most of the team (and I would guess most of the people here) don't even think co-existence on the forums will work, let alone the game.  Self-evaluate and see what you think that means about this community.

[Raekh]

PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game immersed into a 3D virtual fantasy world which is FULLY FREE to play.

the first sentence in About PlaneShift reads.
If PlaneShift is like "every commercial MMO", simply change the game's description for people wont be confused/claiming if they wont find what they were told in advance. That easy.
Saying this was some unique RP-game, then again wondering why are people complaining about lack of attention given on RP aspects is quite a bit beyond me - but easily to be fixed.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Don't try to equivocate on the issue. We're giving you options. If rp dies, rpers' are responsible.

I will work tirelessly to make sure that doesn't happen, but I'm just one idealist in a world of lolcats.

Not "plers," but "rpers" have made themselves the bane of my existence.

I will no longer do the stupid battle between types of gamer.

I say things like "let's make "approved guilds" " and rpers AND plers come out fighting talking about fairness, earning, alerting me to fears of "favoritism" etc etc etc.

I am done with that.

On Laanx I will (talad willing) favor people. I have spent two decades roleplaying now and I think I know what to favor.

On the non-rp server I will smile. I will smile knowing that script kiddies and leetists will rule the day. I will smile when people make funny guild names and bring the real world with them as they play the game the way they want to.

Rp purists will have a place in the new mythology, but they must do some of the work themselves. You want a world of perfect RP bliss, go find others who want that too.

You fear everything will fall apart without newbs?

Bring some.

I could name names but I won't. Several of the most vocal in the community wanted this. Prove that you have the courage of your convictions. Prove you are as committed as many devs and Talad were and are to the ideals of an rp world, or stop making a fuss when we try to accommodate a larger potential player base.

May Laanx shine on you,

XilliX.

[Waylander]

There's nothing much to say to that.  The simple fact is that RPers use the chat box to RP while the PLers use it to chat.  Chat in the chat box interrupts RP.  If RPers interrupted duels at whim PLers would be just as angry.  The two groups just don't understand one another when it comes to in game affairs.

It boils down to two opposing schools of thought and no, they will never be able to co-exist perfectly, the two servers( whether they be test and main OR RP and PL) will hopefully help this.

I get along with tons of PLers when I'm in IRC... Even though I'm a grouch who often starts off conversations with insults  And I've yet to actually get in a fight with Venge who seems to be my polar opposite ;P  Perhaps the two servers will lead to a better community, in the end.  It's all about not making a big deal out of everything.  If the idea goes south then the dev team will try to fix it.

Stop worrying so much.

[zanzibar]

At the risk of stirring up the s*** more, I'd like to make a point about the statement "This game was created for RP."  I've been on the project since 2001, so I was here pretty early.  I've *never* RPed in my life and I've *never* been interested in that aspect of the game in the least.  I don't mind if people like roleplaying and I was supportive of letting them do that, but it was certainly never a priority for me.  I've taken the position since the early days that we should have features for RPers and features for PLers and everyone in between, and that there is no reason they can't co-exist.  Well, afaic that experiment has failed.  The RPers and others cannot co-exist because the RPers can't tolerate people asking questions on how to play without brackets, can't tolerate funny names, can't tolerate people saying OMGLOLZ.

Ok the co-existence experiment has failed.  Now we know why every commercial MMO has separate servers for RP and non-RP players.  Fair enough.  We'll do the same thing and make both sides happy.

Did the PLers ever complain about the RPers getting in their way or spamming their chats?  If they did, I never heard it.  The complaints all went one way.  And here again, the complaints go one way.  If we had said we were forcing the RPers to go to the 2nd server, can you imagine the outcry?  So we say we will preserve Laanx for that, since the RPers are already there and such a strong RP community, and PLers have to move--and the RPers get upset about that too.

We tried co-existence.  Co-existence failed.  We're making a 2nd server, and as PS grows I'm sure we will add dozens more.  Get used to it.

p.s. Most of the team (and I would guess most of the people here) don't even think co-existence on the forums will work, let alone the game.  Self-evaluate and see what you think that means about this community.

There have been many solutions proposed by people that would make a positive difference.  Until these solutions are tried (or at least considered!), no one can with integrity say the experiment failed.

Did the PLers ever complain about the RPers getting in their way or spamming their chats?

Yes.  Absolutely.  And please don't misrepresent the positions of the roleplayers.  It's not that they want players to be in character at all times; it's that they just don't want people to be disruptive, and they don't want the mechanics of the game itself to be disruptive either.

I've *never* RPed in my life and I've *never* been interested in that aspect of the game in the least.  I don't mind if people like roleplaying and I was supportive of letting them do that, but it was certainly never a priority for me.

If that's your position, then the dev team as a whole is at odds with you from everything I've seen as a player.

[Sen]

I might come up with some random thoughts for this thread in the near future... Today's topic is help channel 
Right now Im planning to be on the ezpcusa server more often to look inside the help channel while playing on laanx since I personally expect more newbs on ezpsusa. I wonder first about how many will do the same and if it's a wise idea or not to have a second client running for help (often enough there are... not many advisors...).
Second, will people playing mainly on the one or other server tend to answer differently? (My guess would be that 'rpers' tend to answer less directly and/or more creative). To keep also newbs aware of there being two servers with different emphasisis to rp and levelling we could add our 'main server' in our answers, like in brackets after the advice itself.
If there is a difference in the type of answers some could be tempted to rather try the one or other server according to which answers sound more sympathic they hear.

Sen

[Morla Phlint]

Hello everyone!

I have been keeping an eye on this thread from the start and noticed a funny thing. The devs say a second server will be launched and everybody is excited and stuff. And then the complains come... why this way and not my way? The thread is already 8 pages long  . Nothing wrong with discussing things but know what? There's a saying "the fish is still in the sea and they already prepare the frying pan"... Just sit back and wait and see for once, eh? I know it might be just me but why make yourselves an opinion before Ezpcusa is even up? Give it a chance, ok? See what comes out of it. And yes, I have a concern: this discussion spoils my waiting for the new server to come up.

About the ancient PLs vs RPs issue: I do roleplay but don't like how obsessed some people get about rules. Just take it easy guys. A bit OOC from time to time won't make the Crystal fall onto our heads. You can't wear a necktie all the time, right? It's all about fun after all.

Yes, I don't feel like being nice for once. And there I go silent again.

[Under the moon]

Did the PLers ever complain about the RPers getting in their way or spamming their chats?  If they did, I never heard it.  The complaints all went one way.  And here again, the complaints go one way.

Ya did stir up a little sh*t with that statement, and I'll tell you why. I have been in many occasions where people or myself have been roleplaying and someone who did not want to roleplay would ask a question about how something worked. When the RPers would start explaining in an 'IC' way, being very informative, nice, and helpful, the non-RPer would get pissy in a hurry, demanding that the RPers stop the bullshit roleplaying and often start calling names.

I was also in more than one situation where we were RPing next to someone who was grinding an NPC, and were asked -very- rudely to take it elsewhere.

The difference? The non-RPers don't go to the forum to complain as much. You never go ingame, so you don't see that side. It is not, and never was a one sided thing.

[Mythryndel]

I will add something here... and I have suggested it before... but if you REALLY don't want your RP interrupted... /group. Main is where everyone talks... and I've seen many times where people try to "join the conversation"... and get told off for interrupting... or "not using brackets" to ask questions about the game itself. People even get told off for making comments about conversations they "overheard" in the tavern because it was supposed to be a "private conversation". I'm sorry, but if I walk into McDonald's and you are talking... I am likely to overhear you unless you are keeping your voice down... Main Chat is NOT the tab where you assume you are not going to be overheard.

The tutorial tells people to ask other players for help... and what a nice welcoming community we have. In the year I have been here... I have gone out of my way to make sure that new players are always helped by me, regardless of what I might be in the middle of doing. I was helped by a handful of players when I started, and it made my time here much less frustrating, and much more enjoyable. Unfortunately, most of them have left for any number of reasons. Did anyone ask me to do this? no. I did it because I saw many times if I didn't do this, not many others were willing to. I have seen few RPers willing to do the same, only gripe at the guy wearing no armor and wielding falchions that he needs to put his weapons up and use []. That is not what the new character needs if you want to give him/her a chance to learn PS well enough to be comfortable enough to RP.

I am not calling out ALL RPers... I know there are those that are like me in helping new players gently... but it seems that a significant number in the RP community have gotten extremely bitter about how this game has simply been an MMORPG... and not the mmoRPg that they want it to be. For the record, almost any game where your character advances along different choices of paths of advancement is called an RPG... think "Choose your own Adventure" books here. You aren't stuck in a single mold and everyone who plays ends up the same at the end. PS is true to the genre of game it claims to be... not everyone has to be a wizard... or a smith... etc.

One other thing I am dying to know here... why do the RPers refuse to take part in events? The halloween event in the DR... it was incredibly fun for all who attended... but people were griping about it on the forums... why? The Xiosia event over Christmas... is what RPers had been asking for... quick stats so they could actually use the mechanics for their character without endless grinding... but several boycotted the event because they deemed it OOC... how can it be OOC if the GM/Settings team ran the event? I wish you all the best of luck, but I'm likely to spend most of my time helping people enjoy themselves on the new server.

[Vengeance]

UTM: Fair enough.

Zanz: Your logical leap from "you haven't tried every friggin idea in the world" to "you have no integrity" is classic Zanzibar.  ;-)

[Mathy Stockington]

Isn't time ALL of us stop complaining? My feelings are the second server was made for ALL of us because of the complaining. Now we get what we want and still complain.

May I be the first to say Thank You for all your hard work to make this game fun for all of us.

[zanzibar]

UTM: Fair enough.

Zanz: Your logical leap from "you haven't tried every friggin idea in the world" to "you have no integrity" is classic Zanzibar.  ;-)

Venge, my post did not say you have no integrity.  I simply said that you were jumping to a conclusion.  It takes a lot for me to question someone's integrity, and I haven't done it in this thread, nor would I question someone's integrity simply because I disagree with them on an opinion.  Opinions are just opinions.

I also didn't say that you need to try every idea in the world.  I'd be glad to discuss things that I think should be considered that haven't been tried yet, but I don't think this is the thread to do it in.  Feel free to talk to me on IRC or by PM if you would like to discuss some of my ideas.  I know that there are devs, players, ex-devs, and ex-players that have interesting ideas as well. UTM and Verrliit are on the short list of such individuals, even though I don't agree with them on everything.

If you think "the experiment" has failed, then that makes me sad because it simply isn't true.  The PlaneShift community continues to evolve and redefine itself with change.  I think it's very much a success in that regard.  The question isn't "Is it dead?", but instead "How can we make it more successful?"


@Myth:  You definitely have a point, I think people are complaining about the new server before actually giving it a chance.  I really don't think it's anything to worry about.  I even think it's possible that more RP will happen because of the new server rather than less.

[Prolix]

Thank you for opening up the new server, I might be having trouble accepting the "giant footsteps in the sky leading to the olympic stadium," but it should all work out ok.

[verden]

This is incredible! I am amazed! I never thought I would see it happen. If RP dies now, its the fault of the players. No more excuses.