Should magic be just another chore?

[Prolix]

Why is it that glyphs do not wear out? They are the gift of Talad and he is a known bumbler. How did he manage to make their magic permanent? Now I have had the feeling that magic ought to be a dangerous art given that it pertains to harnessing wild forces, whether they are natural or not.) To me this repeat after me, any moron can do it magic system goes against the grain as it reduces a mystic art to cooking by recipe. Sure researching a spell can be dangerous but casting it is not.

I would much rather have a more lengthy research and development phase to learn the spell and then more respect for its power once it is known. To this end the R&D phase would be a natural process where the glyph combination tried would give a glimmer of possibility should it be valid and the resulting spell close to the practitioners capabilities. A fifth level mage might get a feeling that a certain combination goes together even if it was in a fifth realm spell but not have any idea as to what it actually does. He would however have a strong feeling about a first realm combination and gain information about it fairly quickly. His choice of faith could be a factor making Ways aligned with his faith easier and Ways opposed harder. Atheists could have all Ways considered opposed.

The process of spell research should be drawn out and give practice/experience. The practice value of actually casting a given spell ought to be tied to its effectiveness similar to fighting or mining, and the amount given be proportionate to spell level.

To me, the practice of repeatedly casting a spell for practice and no other reason really is just a work around for the current system. Pure power levelling and nothing else.

Does any of this make sense to anyone?

[Mythryndel]

It makes sense... but glyphs are difficult to come by... quest rewards mostly... so making them a consumable item... is difficult right now.

As to the rest... they basically make it expensive to compensate for the lack of realism in the training... IMHO. I do wish that research and maybe even purification could give "practice"... and that the glyph research for combinations could be a little more intuitive if you are a higher level, just like you outlined.

I do NOT want it to become hopelessly complicated... anything more complicated than the current weapons crafting system is a bad thing... again IMHO.

If there were better ways to practice magic, I am all for it... but there are not enough practical opportunities to practice... especially when you have to target monsters that are impervious (which has been MUCH better recently, but still happens), [EDIT] and offensive magic does so little damage until you are higher levels that it is impractical to use.

Just my 2 trias.

[Prolix]

No I can't fault anything you are saying it goes toward "just a work around for the current system."

[Irgendwer]

Why is it that glyphs do not wear out?

Do your glasses wear out by looking through them?

Glyphs are more or less ritual items, there is (probably) little (mechanical) stress on them, so it's fairly reasonable, that they do not wear out.

Does any of this make sense to anyone?

Nope.

• You are suggesting to replace the current system with the current system. I'd still have to practise casting for no other reason then to get levels in order to be able to research combos. If training does not have any further effect then giving you hints on which combo leads to a spell, then I guess, everybody would skip on training and just use a spoiler list
• The magic ways re not really tied to religion and it is not meaningful to do so unless you want to further alias worshipping. Please note: There are people (e.g. me) who want to play a magic user, but are not interested in becoming Menlil^2, just to be able to cast something

[Parallo]

Quite right, Irgendwer, though I'm not that fond of the current system and I do think there should be a little more depth to it.

[Prolix]

You do not seem to really understand what I am suggesting.
About my glasses, well they do not wear out from looking through them but my eyes change making them useless but putting that aside for the moment, my glasses do get worn from usage, the lenses get scratched or broken,  the frame gets twisted or parts break off.

That has to do with the mechanical stresses on the glyphs but more telling would be the magical stresses. You are focusing the magic power through this tiny item. Surely a poorly cast spell could cause a glyph to suffer the backlash. Still kind of beside my main point though.

So who doesn't use spoilers to know spell combos currently? I haven't found a single combination on my own. It is far to painful to keep trying with no successes.

I am absolutely not suggesting replacing the current system with the current system. In the current system pointless spell casting is the norm, my proposal would eliminate it. You would get experience for actually doing something useful and possibly even be punished for wasteful spell casting. There would be no practising there would only be use. I would also make it easier to gain those levels.

So you want to play a magic user that is great. Nobody starts as king of the world. The game is in the getting there.

[Caarrie]

• You are suggesting to replace the current system with the current system. I'd still have to practise casting for no other reason then to get levels in order to be able to research combos. If training does not have any further effect then giving you hints on which combo leads to a spell, then I guess, everybody would skip on training and just use a spoiler list
• The magic ways re not really tied to religion and it is not meaningful to do so unless you want to further alias worshipping. Please note: There are people (e.g. me) who want to play a magic user, but are not interested in becoming Menlil^2, just to be able to cast something

Keep in mind that the WHOLE magic system is undergoing a rewrite so things suggested here _will_ change and in the future all spells will be balanced and there will be a new progression system someday as well.

[khoridor]

About the useless casts of spells, I have no opinion because:
- it makes sense to have a system that gives you practice only when you cast useful spells, mechanics-wise.
- it also makes sense to practice by "uselessly" repeating casts, when casting is a combination of difficult gestures and sounds; as an analogy, combat is practiced mostly without danger, to approach perfection of movements, so as to be able to repeat them naturally in any circumstances. With experience, these moves become reflexes.

To me, it is a design choice to make, or it could even be combined, useful spells giving more experience, and spells cast under stress (i.e. combat) even more, for example.

One part of magic which I think needs more development is the glyph purification. This is, so far, of very little use: just making us lose a bit of time before researching. Maybe glyphs have been designed to "wear off", after all, and will need to be purified again in the future...