Author Topic: Arguing  (Read 2541 times)

verden

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 716
    • View Profile
Arguing
« on: February 12, 2009, 06:12:27 am »

Mathy Stockington

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 781
    • View Profile
Re: Arguing
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2009, 01:17:53 pm »
I am always interested in a good discussion (arguement). It keeps my mind off my troubles. What do you wish to argue about?
Life is lived forwards, but understood backwards

Bamko

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 234
    • View Profile
Re: Arguing
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2009, 02:09:59 pm »
A good read.  Many good points in it, worthy of discussion.  :P

I notice that, especially online, : (not everyone, but someone...)

that having a opinion that is different than some is seen as an issue to battle to the death.
That citing a reference that could better answer a point of debate will not only probably not be followed and looked at, but will ususally be seen as an insult.
That if you disagree with the "other side' and will not roll over just because you are in the minority, then you are seen as being inflexible.
That if you indicate you have confidence in your position and need more than saracstic flamewaring to change your mind, you are seen as looking down on others. (as opposed to some topics, which I may not have thought about much, but may have a less tested opinion, for example)

Specifically in this forum/community:
If you mention that some RP-elites do not allow you to RP your character in accordance to your wishes within the settings of Yliakum, then you are not a "True RP-er"
If you decide not to participate in some "RP" because it is more ego driven by the "author", a waste of time, or even if your character would not bother to "get involved in such a minor matter" then you are not a "True RP-er"
and if you are "RPing" and you are challenged to a duel, or your character would challange the other in a duel in these circumstances, many people get REALLY upset that you are "Relying on mechanics to win RP"  (huh?, who is ruining whose RP here?)

Of course the worst IG thing that hurts RP for my characters is probably when one person acts in a way my character would think they are in a cult, or insane, and as such tries to avoid them.  There is, much like the real world, conflicting theories (settings).  If Bamko believes that the guards will enforce everyone having to learn to fight and defend themselves, then he will tend to see the followers of Xiosia as radical hippies.  So while he tries to be polite to them, he also thinks they have a screw lose.  The only reason they are not given the true death must be because of the compasion of Talad on the disfigured (see story of Talad and Laanx).  But heaven help bamko (intentional mixed settings there, hehehe) if he acts that way ingame.  If someone choses to avoid your character, it may be that is actually "good rp" on both your parts, please do not /tell me about how you have a right to behave that way and I have to accept your character and my character and your character need to interact for an extended length of time.

I look forward to EZPCUSA being allowed to have newbs, but I see it as a RELAXED, non confrontational RP envirionment, as opposed to a "No RP Allowed" one. 

On Fragnetics every time I would try to RP, someone would seem to want to argueing with me about WHY I am Rping the way I am, ususally in /tells.  (See Verdan's link down near bottom, under "Ideologues")

having said all that, I suppose I can point out another point or 2.  From the source link:"Now, arguing with cranks can be fun,"

If someone is looking for an online battle, I must say it is hard for me not to engage, giggling all the time.  I do try to not reply if I think they will not even bother reading more than the first sentenace of my response, because it can be troubling to others of a more sensitive nature, but it IS fun to find someone who is not even trying to listen and wind them up, eh?

So If one of my posts get you mad, relax.  I can guarantee you I am not getting my ego validation in silly discussions here, and IMO, neither should you.  (Exp, if the thought that I MIGHT not like you makes you cry... then you might need to re-read this)  hehehe   ;D


verden

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 716
    • View Profile
Re: Arguing
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2009, 03:19:33 pm »
I agree that EZPC should be relaxed. To go to the opposite extreme and ban RP would be to make the same mistake, just taking it to the same extreme. Otherwise, I just thought it was a good read... with many points of comparisons to these forums. If you want to argue, Mathy, just bring something up in a post on this forum. Even the most innocuous post seems to create a maelstrom of arguments here.

neko kyouran

  • Guest
Re: Arguing
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2009, 03:41:35 pm »

Oomi

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Arguing
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2009, 06:12:34 am »
Verden -

A thoroughly enjoyable read. I have bookmarked it, and I thank you.

- Oomi

hitancrias

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 329
    • View Profile
Re: Arguing
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2009, 06:15:48 am »
Nice link verden.
I especially like how he says that meta-discussions are fruitless. This thread of course is the exception because this meta discussions are on topic here. :)

My personal itches:
- People saying "you clearly didn't read my post". People saying that may forget that people who actually read their posts may still not understand them or agree with it them.
- Humor when it's clear that people are agitated. In such situation humor is never a smart thing. People who are upset and feel misunderstood in a discussion always misinterpret your friendly humorous gesture of peace as a personal attack. In real life, humor may ease a situation, on forums it's just more oil to the fire.
- Mods locking threads because "everything has been said". How can they know? Why is it bad if things are mentioned multiple times in the same thread? (not talking about duplicate threads here) Why is the happy birthday thread still open? It's fishy :p
Hitancrias. Herbalist. Explorer.

Prolix

  • Guest
Re: Arguing
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2009, 07:00:42 am »
There was a big long discussion about birthday threads and it was decided to have just one for everyone instead hundreds for individuals.

Mathy Stockington

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 781
    • View Profile
Re: Arguing
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2009, 03:43:59 pm »
Nice link verden.
I especially like how he says that meta-discussions are fruitless. This thread of course is the exception because this meta discussions are on topic here. :)

My personal itches:
- People saying "you clearly didn't read my post". People saying that may forget that people who actually read their posts may still not understand them or agree with it them.
- Humor when it's clear that people are agitated. In such situation humor is never a smart thing. People who are upset and feel misunderstood in a discussion always misinterpret your friendly humorous gesture of peace as a personal attack. In real life, humor may ease a situation, on forums it's just more oil to the fire.
- Mods locking threads because "everything has been said". How can they know? Why is it bad if things are mentioned multiple times in the same thread? (not talking about duplicate threads here) Why is the happy birthday thread still open? It's fishy :p

All great points hitancrias

I will add one more:

-When a great thread goes off topic.

[I say the forum mods should threw away their locks for a week and let us see what happens. I bet we will see how important the mods really are.]
Life is lived forwards, but understood backwards

Xillix Queen of Fools

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1876
    • View Profile
Re: Arguing
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2009, 04:01:48 pm »
It's a good link with some nice examples.

I would argue that often it's easy to tell that everything's been said because some of these arguments have gone on for years with little or no change in the posturing and examples cited as evidence. Here are some arguments that irk me.

-Fallacy of "the way things were"

-Rp vs. PL

-This is important, fix this now!

-I just tried the game and have never read the forums let me tell you a bunch of things you already know.

All that said however, I realize I'm a filty Land-Snark.


Parallo

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2035
  • Ꞇíꞃ Luıᵹ̇ꝺeaċ
    • View Profile
Re: Arguing
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2009, 04:02:40 pm »
@Mathy:
Quote from: Whomever wrote the article
Topic police
This may be the least of the problems described on this page, because it usually doesn’t work anyway. But some people, especially if they started a thread, feel that they can control its contents. But people discuss what they find interesting, and a thread can veer off unpredictably from its origins.
I suggest the statue of Laanx gets turned into a statue of Parallo <3. An NPC could never replace the huge hole he left in my heart when he died  :'(

hitancrias

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 329
    • View Profile
Re: Arguing
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2009, 03:30:59 am »
-Fallacy of "the way things were"
*nods in agreement* After a year or so people realize that a great deal all of the great people they met in their first few weeks are gone. Than they become sad and over romanticize the time they were young and fresh and unprejudiced newbs. Even though MB, of course, was way cooler than all those power levelers we have now.  8)  No, I didn't mean that last bit seriously...

Quote
All that said however, I realize I'm a filty Land-Snark.
What's a Land-Snark? I bet I'm one too.
Hitancrias. Herbalist. Explorer.