On the subject of rolling dice

[weltall]

I disagree with the above and agree with most comments to the first posts roleplaying should be supported by game mechanics and viceversa. It's absurd that someone with skills of someone just come out from char creation is able to kill or block in anyway someone who has high stats (and sometimes even has lower stats - but did some training). If you have 0 in red way it's absurd talking of "trowing big fireballs" - imho this could be considered godmodding -, and there are people who train even if they are excellent roleplayers. Else we can just get an eggdrop setup an irc room and here you are: same result.

[zanzibar]

I disagree with the above and agree with most comments to the first posts roleplaying should be supported by game mechanics and viceversa. It's absurd that someone with skills of someone just come out from char creation is able to kill or block in anyway someone who has high stats (and sometimes even has lower stats - but did some training). If you have 0 in red way it's absurd talking of "trowing big fireballs" - imho this could be considered godmodding -, and there are people who train even if they are excellent roleplayers. Else we can just get an eggdrop setup an irc room and here you are: same result.

My post was above yours... did you disagree with my post?

Also, I didn't see anyone make a post about entering the game as master magicians... what's the number of the reply that you saw that in?

[weltall]

I disagree with the above and agree with most comments to the first posts roleplaying should be supported by game mechanics and viceversa. It's absurd that someone with skills of someone just come out from char creation is able to kill or block in anyway someone who has high stats (and sometimes even has lower stats - but did some training). If you have 0 in red way it's absurd talking of "trowing big fireballs" - imho this could be considered godmodding -, and there are people who train even if they are excellent roleplayers. Else we can just get an eggdrop setup an irc room and here you are: same result.

My post was above yours... did you disagree with my post?

Also, I didn't see anyone make a post about entering the game as master magicians... what's the number of the reply that you saw that in?

no about the original posts sorry for the misunderstanding.

That wasn't a gm it was a player in game - gm usually use correctly the game mechanics when possible and in this case they can set the skills correctly

[Dajoji]

Rolls allow certain impartiality when it comes to RP fights as they are fair to all parties. However, it isn't exactly fair to give all characters the same odds to succeed as some may be fresh out of character creation, while others may have some training or at least countless hours of consistent RP which could translate to certain acquired skills for their characters. It's all very relative so the best solution would be to base the success of the rolls on their current stats and skills so basically, we'd have the same issue as with PvP. The characters that train will have a better chance over those who don't.

In any case, I think it's better to just let players roll the dice as they please. They agree on the terms, negotiate their odds of success and then play accordingly.

And regarding emotes, I personally hate automated messages. Certain actions that are plain and universal like taking a seat or falling asleep are ok, but when the messages define your character's personality, I simply prefer to enter them myself. But that's just me

[Bamko]

not entirely sure, but I think they might of meant something more like this: http://www.yliakum.com/index.php?topic=13

of course can be used for anything not implemented or any kind of event/happenings.  Note the title, part where it says "for other non-implemented things"

I think the original pst maybe wanted to do stuff like this, but have the die rolls hidden.  I think it is better to have them seen by all, even if at the time only 2 people understand what the roll is deciding.

does this help? 

Hopefully does not hurt, eh?

[verden]

I'm afraid I do not believe this idea will get anywhere, simply because it will widen the gap between RP and game mechanics. The eventual goal would be for RP and game mechanics to compliment one another, so that such "work around" methods will no longer be needed. I agree that the combat system, as it is, does not support RP fighting very well, but that will more than likely change in the future.

Yep, and there are different ways in which this could be implemented. I could see adding a couple of fun commands that support roleplay, but it could easily get very complex with people calling for a completely different combat system, which I think would be a mistake. It would be better if any commands such as this were tied into the existing character mechanics. But, anyway, I blocked out two ideas and a supporting third to start a discussion on how/if/why this should be implemented. I gave it a shot, Illysia, but I think there are already ideas about how these concepts could mesh in the future.

[Duraza]

A rolling system sounds great all and all but in terms of fighting you might as well stick to the game mechanics. Sure, people get to type out their 'elaborate' attacks and explain there mystic magic but really it's the same as dueling only without the need to train. Allow me to explain.

The dueling system gives you a winner determined by a characters specific stats, weapons and etc. Basically it's all math but it's math that has a logical outcome i.e. 2 is more than 4 so 4 beats 2. Of course you could have 4 as well if you trained enough.

A dice rolling system allows me and my enemy to describe our attacks as we are used to with text based fighting and then is also decided by numbers, however these numbers are random. This favors complete fairness, in other words I could have 4 this attack but then have 2 the next attack.

Obviously neither system comes close to a real fight. In a real fight skill gives the obvious beginning advantage, the reason people train in a game. Our dueling system is missing the aspect of 'randomness' where a person with no sword skill at all somehow is able to slice of the head of an adept swordsman. This randomness kills 'fairness' for realism and I don't personally care so much for fair play. To counter-act randomness of course you'd have a one out of a million chances of being the lucky one to kill the adept swordsman.

What the current system lacks the most, and where the most unfair yet at the same time totally fair play comes into the game, is limits. Limitations kill all chances of godmodding as no one person can be better at everything than someone else. In other words I can be the fastest but I might have really low strength. I can be the fastest and the strongest but I can't learn how to use a weapon or read a book.

With limits there wouldn't be a reason why a separation between mechanics and roleplay would exist, at least from a fighting standpoint (ignoring bugs etc that come along with the game still being uncompleted). The games with the greatest grind all force players to make a choice in how they develop a character, strengthening one aspect of a character by losing ability in another field. Some games don't allow you to do certain things at all depending on how you picked in the beginning. On the 'grinder' side of the game I would see no conflict.

On the 'rper' side of the game there should be no conflict as well. Realism is what you ask for, limits is what you get. Simple as that, no real need for explanation.

Now on the 'whiner' side of it (which I bet are bother 'grinders' and 'rpers') I'm sure there will be some reason why I'm completely wrong and should just go back to the cave I've been hiding in.

[Illysia]

That's all nice any good everybody... but this has nothing to do with what I am talking about. This is not meant for actual combat. "/Attack" in this case would be the equivalent to attempting to punch someone in the arm say or slapping someone. It's not even primarily about attacking or combat. Obviously there is a system for that, I'm not trying to suggest anything to conflict, replace or supplement that.

to give you an idea, say someone throws a pie at you. You or the person throwing could use the emote to decide whether or not you have been hit. Or you could not use it, you can simply decide yourself, you can type /me ducks.

It is just a way of deciding in fairness simple things(not fighting). If the action needs to take into account way too many things to be subject to a 50/50 chance(in other words duels are not good for this)... then don't use it, simple.

On the subject of widening the divide. It shouldn't unless people go out of their way to do that. PLers have no reason to use it, it is optional for RPers and can't be used in connection with complex actions. If I drop something and I want an arbitrary way of deciding if the object breaks then I could use the command, if it is unlikely that it would break if I dropped it then I wouldn't use the command at all. See?

[zanzibar]

Well, it could be done through the mechanics.  Ideally, anything and everything can be used as a weapon.  A chair leg, a stick you find on the ground, a book... most of those things won't be very good weapons though.  A pie could be used as a projectile weapon, much like a throwing knife... only there would be negligible damage.

[Illysia]

Zanzibar, this has NOTHING to do with dealing damage.

[zanzibar]

It has nothing to do with trying to kill eachother, but if an action could logically cause harm, then it might deal damage... I've probably misunderstood something. 

[Bamko]

Illysia ...

I swear it sounds just like the link I posted, except it is about picking pockets instead of tossing pies.  Did you even look at it?  people can decide the die rolls mean hit or miss <pie> or whatever.

Please read the link before you tell me I do not understand, and then tell me how your concept differes from that, or this conversation will continue to go in circles and I will just ignore it.  Cheese and rice.....

at least pretend you are listening before you tell me "but this has nothing to do with what I am talking about."  I am not even going to drop the link again, re-read my previous post if you actually want to pretend you are trying to comunicate.

and to be clear, if you do want to just talk to yourself, that is fine also, I will stop trying to understand you then.  I still think the system I linked to would cover pie throwing, or anything else. 

agree among group that if A throws a pie at B, and they do not react (say "jump"?) then a 3-10 (on a /roll 1 10 ) means it hits them, a 2 means it hits someone else, and a one means it hits no one, and if they DO jump, then 6-10 hits them... you get the idea)

eitehr way, there has to be some agrement on some rules of a sort, whether it is ever implemented ingame or not.  for now, it has to be among each other.  I like codewords.  that is also discussed in the link I dropped. 

Then, through use, you can modify how it works to be funner, and viole, done.



I look forward to seeing if you care enough to read a page discussing this.  I would like to see more of this kind of stuff used.

[khoridor]

to give you an idea, say someone throws a pie at you. You or the person throwing could use the emote to decide whether or not you have been hit. Or you could not use it, you can simply decide yourself, you can type /me ducks.

If you want some randomness to your own reaction, why not just toss a coin and then type either "/me ducks the pie" or "/me gets the pie in the face" ?

[Illysia]

Bamko: First, no it is not what I am talking about, if you'll notice, you system is complicated the one I suggest is not. Second, next time you decide get an attitude and decide to criticize someone's response, please looks past your own ego before you do so. If what I said doesn't fit what you said then chances are I'm not talking to you.... Please, look through the thread and notice that you are not that the only posting here.

Khoridor, at this rate I'm thinking a coin toss would be easier as apparently my suggestion is not clear or is confused with other suggestions. But a coin toss is the closest thing to what I am asking for. No complex mechanic. Simply yes <minor event> happened or no <minor event> did not happen.

The whole reason for doing this is like this: say something is done to my character and I am drawn between being a good roleplayer (not instantly rejecting the event and going along with it) and avoiding (within reason) the effect of the event. After all, you can rationalize any reason for why you character can't or won't be affected. This way it would be a 50/50 chance and nobody would have an unfair advantage. The idea isn't just randomness, it a way of equalizing between what you want and what the other person wants to happen next.

[zanzibar]

/try _____________


--> Zanzibar tries to ____________ (, but fails).


?