On the subject of rolling dice

[Illysia]

Yes! 

[Bamko]

Ill.

first, everyone on all sides were unclear what you mean. 

second, my "system" is not that complicated.

third, I did not get an attitude, though I am critical of yout response. it does not require one to have an attitude to be critical of you not even trying to make youself clear, but still telling us we do not understand what you mean.  We have been guessing for 2 pages, and as of yet, I have not seen you either explain how what any of us have posted is not what you mean in what way, specifically. It would of been easier if you just made yourself clear.  you say rolling a die (implemented) would be too complicated, but even now there is the question on rather you mean just for yourself to see, or some sort of group thing.

do you realize the game already had die rolls?  want a coin flip, try "/roll 1 2"

if you want a simple yes or no, why not put an odds that you think is fair, and /roll 1/100 and that would make it a percentage yes, rest = no.  maybe that is easier for you to see?  Or you can keep a penny near your computer and do it old school?

it almost sounds like you want to automate RP, but I am sure I must be reading more into that.  I would like to see more player interaction, I dont need the NPCs of Hyldaa to Rp so much they decide they dont need us visitors, eh?

so if rolling a /roll 1 100 and having preset outcomes is too complicated for you, maybe decide what the rolls mean after you roll? 

either way, it is simpler than rolling a die Ingame (already implemented) that allows you to, among yourself or small groups determine certain behavior that your character will interact with others, I will respond to that.

I see some value in having a system.  nothing stinks more than tossing a pie and having everyone ducking it every time.  Same with kids playing.  everyone wants to control and win the 'game'.  find people who will actually let themselves be hit in the face once in a while.. then maybe even '/me keeps an eye on you every time you pick something up'... and just ignore the godmoders who never get dirty in a foodfight.  you will find these same people would not agree that they will be hit in the face even 5% of the time.  That is why you can find me on ezpcusa.

Zanzibar, thanks for deciphering it, but I am still unclear whether it would always be 50/50 or what.  if so maybe they mean something like /try like "/try to throw a pie at baughb" which woudl show up as "Bamko tries to throw a pie at Baughb but fails (or and hits him)?  I would want a percentage.  but it would still meet resistance I predict, from those I mentioned above.  (I should get a bonus for agility, I was watching, I cast defensive wind, I declare my dodge on you!) but at least I think I understand the proposal now. 

I think find people who will RP without being teflonic (is that a word?).  ones who can not let their avatar get dirty, well, ostracize them?

gtg,... hope that is clear enough both on my views and on my suggestions.

[Illysia]

Please read the link before you tell me I do not understand, and then tell me how your concept differes from that, or this conversation will continue to go in circles and I will just ignore it.  Cheese and rice.....

at least pretend you are listening before you tell me "but this has nothing to do with what I am talking about."  I am not even going to drop the link again, re-read my previous post if you actually want to pretend you are trying to comunicate.

and to be clear, if you do want to just talk to yourself, that is fine also, I will stop trying to understand you then. 

This is attitude...

Zanzibar finally got what I meant, that should help clarify if what I said isn't clear enough. You are over complicating the matter. I will try again to explain.

You type:

/try _____________

like Zanzibar suggested.

Everyone within distance sees a message like this:

--> Zanzibar tries to ____________ (, but fails).

My only change is that the message would say:

Player [does action] or [tried to do action but fails]

Yes or no, it happened or it didn't happen. No percentages, no skills taken into account. agility and all that other stuff is what I meant about rationalizing why it couldn't happen. And slow people can dodge and fast people can get hit stuff happens even when there are things that can prevent it. Also ,the whole idea is to not use dice roles. It kind looks odd because it is rarely used just once and then you have five dice results breaking up whatever else was said or done in regards to the RP.

[zanzibar]

Win.

[Duraza]

/try _____________


--> Zanzibar tries to ____________ (, but fails).


?

Kay Illysia I get what you mean now.

The question I raise now is has godmodding gotten that bad ingame? I can't really speak, I haven't played for more than 5 minutes in a while. It's just that you'd think people would have to common sense to decide things like '/me throws a pie' fairly. If not then I'd say this system you've got in mind Illysia is fine. I just wish that instead of having to make a game mechanic to decide such simple outcomes people would have more sense, both on the side of the pie thrower and the pie avoider.

[Illysia]

It's not so much a response to godmodders as it is just an optional feature. I personally hate making those decision sometimes.

[Vengeance]

Personally I like the idea a lot.  I think the discussion got a little off-track because the example was attacking.  But if an RPer wanted to decide randomly whether they liked someone or disliked someone or were nice or not nice to someone, then they could use this feature.  How about the following for a way to make it work?

<another player begs for money>
/try 98 /me gives you a valuable weapon.  /say Go away loser!

Then the command rolls a 100-sided dice and plays the first command if higher than the number specified (98) or the second command otherwise.

The player who issues this command would see what the outcome was and could use the regular game to give the beggar his weapon if that is what he sees happen.

Would that work?  I think it would be quite easy to implement.

[Illysia]

I think that would be very nice actually. it's not exactly what I was going for but it might work better.

Would the message show to other people as well?

[khoridor]

I still do not see what benefits such a command gives, compared to the player tossing a coin before typing his/her action. A couple of reasons here:
- typing 2 (or more) outcomes after /try is longer than typing only 1 after you toss your coin (as a player)
- the command would be shorter with a syntax such as Zanzibar's example, yet the systematic "but failed" would be limiting; it's usually when something fails that a description needs to be fleshed out.
- the "try" verb itself is limiting. For example, to decide if/what someone pickpockets from you, I don't see what you would actually try to do, since your character wouldn't even notice a successful pickpocket.
- also, the /try seems limited as a replacement to a /me, but then you may need commands with /my, /mypet, and others.

I think what I'm missing is the psychological aspect of your request, why you'd rather have PS toss a coin than do it manually.
Apart from that, I'm sure we can help optimise your idea to cover syntax issues with maximum simplicity, before you submit your feature request.
          /try   [ x ]   [ /me, /my ]   success_text   [ /me, /my ]   failure_text
Brackets contain optional text, with meaning and defaults as follow:
- [ x ] the chances of success, 50% by default
- the attempt is made by /me by default
There's a need to clearly separate the success and failure texts, with a sign or quotes. Advice needed from PS commands syntax expert here.

[Illysia]

It's just a nice way of incorporating it into the mechanics. It's no more beneficial to RPing than having objects or guildhouses in game. Technically you can RP those things, but it is nice to have a provision for them.

[Mythryndel]

I'm confused... the RP crowd shuns the mechanics for lots of reasons... but now even RP is getting too burdensome and it would be nice if mechanics could do parts of your RP for you? Or is this simply a way to put the blame on the mechanics if you never get hit by a pie in the face... instead of being called a godmodder?

I promise... I am not trying to be contrary here... I'm not even saying it is a horrible idea... just trying to understand the "why" of it.

[zanzibar]

I'm confused... the RP crowd shuns the mechanics for lots of reasons... but now even RP is getting too burdensome and it would be nice if mechanics could do parts of your RP for you? Or is this simply a way to put the blame on the mechanics if you never get hit by a pie in the face... instead of being called a godmodder?

I promise... I am not trying to be contrary here... I'm not even saying it is a horrible idea... just trying to understand the "why" of it.

Well, you've made a number of insinuations in that post:

- the RP crowd shuns mechanics, both specifically and generally
- the RP crowd has an agenda to blame the mechanics for things
- Illysia is trying to avoid being called a godmodder

It comes across as complaining.

If you want to understand it better, you'll have to start by not looking at things in terms of black and white.  There isn't an RP crowd and a non-RP crowd - people are a little of this, a little of that, even if they tend to do one thing or the other.  There isn't an organized RP front, and there isn't an agenda to blame the mechanics or the PLers or anything else of that nature.

With combat for instance, people want dice rolls so that they can fight in a way that better represents the abilities and motives of the characters involved.  They aren't opposed to the mechanics - they just want an alternative system to use until the mechanics are adjusted to their liking.

With Illysia's wish, I think he wants a way to do actions that have their beginnings in the creative mind but have a result determined by something extra-personal.  Extra-personal elements, in this case it's chance, make the game fun and realistic.  Reality is that which is "out there", so a game can't have realism if you aren't connected to things outside of yourself.

I hope that helps!  Chances are the OP can give you a good answer as well once he gets around to the thread again.

[Mathy Stockington]

I'm confused... the RP crowd shuns the mechanics for lots of reasons... but now even RP is getting too burdensome and it would be nice if mechanics could do parts of your RP for you? Or is this simply a way to put the blame on the mechanics if you never get hit by a pie in the face... instead of being called a godmodder?

I promise... I am not trying to be contrary here... I'm not even saying it is a horrible idea... just trying to understand the "why" of it.

This is off topic I believe, but I do not think the 'RP crowd' stuns the game mechanics as much these days as years past. This possibly being true is the reason a great role player like Illysia would ask for this to begin with. A new thread could be started on this idea to find out if is indeed true.

zanzibar I do not think Mythryndel is complaining at all. Please do not start a new arguement here.

[Mythryndel]

I do apologize if I came across as complaining... but if you look back at this thread... the term godmodder is used... there is also a statement about not wanting to make a decision all the time as to the outcome... and I do see two distinctly different sets of people in PS. I do not deny that most fall into both camps, but the camps are there. Just look at the thread about the new server... or any of several others... to see that there are a number of people who shun mechanics. This is not a strawman. I am NOT accusing Illisia of being one of these, but am simply, and honestly, trying to figure out why a shortcut of this nature is desirable.

I have always assumed (yes, I know what happens when you assume) that the reason for the strict RP style of play is so that things were not automatic... so that they were more personal, so that the only limit to what was possible was settings and your imagination. This suggestion seems counter productive to that style of play. Unless I have missed something, or there is something that I have not thought of going on here.

[Illysia]

I have always assumed (yes, I know what happens when you assume) that the reason for the strict RP style of play is so that things were not automatic... so that they were more personal, so that the only limit to what was possible was settings and your imagination. This suggestion seems counter productive to that style of play. Unless I have missed something, or there is something that I have not thought of going on here.

This is not to accommodate that style of play. It'll make sense if you don't try to pigeonhole this as a way of helping one style of RP over the other. It is just a suggestion for a nice feature.