Mechanics for Roleplaying?

[Elady]

Illysia Since I have an interest in cooking I'd be willing to help you out some time in game. It would be nice to have an excuse to work more on my cooking.


I have trained a few guild mates in the basics of  how to make swords and also in cooking.

Reading this thread made me think about the possibility of hiring out to guide newer players to the various  mines  around the map. Of course the newer players who need this type of Info also don't have  much trias so not sure how profitable this could be.

[Illysia]

In a case like this, it wouldn't be about profit but a free service to help new players adjust to game.

[John80sk]

Regarding leveling, while I had supported the idea of gradually reducing skills with time I now tend to disagree as it only increases the amount of time players would spend grinding instead of RPing.  Instead it seems better to me to have a 'skill cap'.  I previously suggested an overall stat cap, and this is pretty much the same idea.  I'd say a 1-8 ratio is the best for skills (so if you had 200 as the individual cap, 1600 would be the overall cap).  This would allow players to train 2 combat skills (a weapon and armor), 2 magic skills, 2 job skills and 2 from the various skills pile.  A player could be a jack of all trades, but a master of none.  Or they could focus on a particular area, such as fighting or blacksmithing.  Stats would follow the same principle (except with more like a 1-3 ratio), forcing characters to choose which stats to max, and making it so that players couldn't be some sort of Spartan/Einstein/Michael Jordan monstrosity.

As a result, yes, you would have to grind at first.  However, after you have reached the 'max' it becomes a system of tailoring your character to what you want to roleplay being.  I do think that once you hit this max, you shouldn't be stuck with it.  I'd say you could do this 2 ways.  One would be that players could select another skill that would decrease if any others increased.  The other possibility is all other trained skills could be reduced to say, 75% once a level had been gained in another skill.

In the end though, it all falls on the players.  It goes back to the horse and the water... if you're strong enough, you might be able to drown the horse, but then... well, you've got a dead horse

[zanzibar]

I guess that if you haven't practiced something for a long time, the skill level will decrease, but as it happens in real life, when you start doing it again, it comes back quick.

It depends.  I think this is less true when you were at a high degree of competency before you fell out of practice.

One solution might be to make the benefits of each level nonlinear.  So the raw difference between level 2 and level 3 is less than the raw difference between level 3 and level 4.  It would be like compound interest.  So someone might drop from level 50 to level 49 in the same time someone would drop from level 5 to level 4.  The person who dropped to level 49 lost a lot more skill than the person who dropped to level 4, even though they both fell by only one level.

Yes, I agree, but relearning should also take less time as higher you are.

I'll use piano as an example since that's what I'm familiar with.

When I'm at a moderate level of practice, I can fall out of practice and I'll get worse.  I can pick it up again pretty easily to the level I was at before.

But there have been times when I've practiced for hours every day, often six hours per day or more, for a few weeks in a row in preparation for some kind of event or exam.  I find myself at a much higher level of skill at those times.  But if I miss just one day of practice, it doesn't set me back a day - it sets me back almost a week.

It's just the way it works.



About guilds:  Can the minimum number of players be reduced from 5 down to 2?  More freedom to create a guild may mean more freedom to roleplay.  The 20k fee could also be rethought.

About grinding:  Many players spend all their time grinding now without decaying skills.  What do you think of my position that levels shouldn't be seen as an end unto themselves?

Said differently, some people define "beating the game" as having an entirely maxed out character.  (I'm not making this up... some people have said this is what they think.)  I'm of the mind that high levels are important only because they allow you to do things you want to do.  And as you do those things you want to do, your levels will increase.  So there won't really be grinding... there will just by players doing what their characters will do, and the levels of those characters will come to reflect those character's actions.

[Aiwendil]

Not really necessary, but it would help a lot with some RP: Improve the chat window. Make it easier to write longer chat lines (Maybe multiline edit) and support copy and past from the chat history. Maybe customizable tab-completion not only for names but also for some often used words like Hydlaa or Yliakum (allow people to add their own words to the tab-completion).

Already suggested a few times, but I still like the idea: Add a specified /roll command for stats to support Role-plays that the mechanics doesn't cover (and maybe will never cover. I doubt there will be ever support for arm wrestling in game. But with both players doing a "/roll strength" and comparing the results this could be still possible with game mechanics involved somehow). I don't think it's a very good idea to limit RP only to what the game mechanics support. Role-playing is something very creative (The reason why I'm so bad in it ) and no game mechanics will ever be able to support everything. So I think it's better to give people some generic tools for certain RP situations that still allow them to involve game-mechanics in some way.

Not sure if possible with the current mechanics, but create a guild-message board with an un-takeable book for each guild (if the guild wants it) that the owner of the book can still edit. Just a place where all guild can announce their events without involving GMs each time and paying for the posters.

An improved /ignore command that allows you to only blank out what a certain player says in the main chat. Just a tool to stop ongoing RPs from being disturbed but that allows to clear the situation and talk to the player afterwards when there is some more time for this . Yes, I know...I should try to get along with all players and their way of playing...but sometimes it's really too annoying to deal with a player immediately and stop the RP for this. So I think a Mainchat-ignore with a short message to the player that he is ignored will be helpful in this cases. And I for myself think I will have much more patience with other players when I can choose the time when dealing with them and don't have to stop the RP for this.

Remove number values like slash, speed or quality from items. Knowledge like inferior or finest steel stock should be enough and will force players to exchange much more knowledge about the different looted weapons to find out which weapon is better. And without these values the information exchange will be more IC too I think.

And now just some thought on the training system:
I like the possibility to change a chars profession after some time (or some RP events, like a injury or such). That's why I'm against a skill cap. The loosing levels idea when not using a skill seems to lead only to people spending much more timing training to keep their skills from decreasing. So not too sure if this would really support any RP. I prefer if each level you gain would increase the experience you need to gain any other level. (For example a plus of 10% on the needed practical experience for each skill after you gained a level in one skill. Would mean that a 150 Brown way mage needs 1500% more experience to for each other skill level ). And like already suggested thousands of time...remove the PPs. Make skill training only based on practical experience and make training with a NPC trainer take away some percentage of the needed practical experience to level up. (For example 25% for each training lesson with a NPC with a maximum of 3 training lessons with a NPC: example (PPs = training points needed, lack of a better expression) 100 PPs needed -> one time training 75 PPs needed -> second training 56 PPs neede -> third training 42 PPs needed). This way players could train even if they doesn't have a trainer (or access to one, like thieves who can't get in town ). And with proper prices players had to spend much less time in the mines and could spend their money for more important things..like beer . And the prices NPCs pay for platinum and gold could be lowered drastically.

Last but not least I agree with all people who wished for more (RP) items and possibilities to earn money without mining or endless monster slaying. But the only addition I have there it that it would be nice if we could gain some items without questing for some days and then not finishing the quest just to get a skull or a whetstone.

[Illysia]

Any level reduction system would have to be gradual (like say over the course of a year), as people don't play all the time. Otherwise, it would be more trouble than help, but I still think it would be a better idea. There is no reason to make it drop whole levels at a time either. The great thing about the current PP system is that it already provides increments for skills to decrease. You could say lose X amount of PP from the total you have spent on a skill over y amount of time.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

An improved /ignore command that allows you to only blank out what a certain player says in the main chat. Just a tool to stop ongoing RPs from being disturbed but that allows to clear the situation and talk to the player afterwards when there is some more time for this Wink. Yes, I know...I should try to get along with all players and their way of playing...but sometimes it's really too annoying to deal with a player immediately and stop the RP for this. So I think a Mainchat-ignore with a short message to the player that he is ignored will be helpful in this cases. And I for myself think I will have much more patience with other players when I can choose the time when dealing with them and don't have to stop the RP for this. This is a bad idea imo

If people are complaining that not enough of the game is social the above only adds to the problems in my view.

[khoridor]

For me, what helps RP the most is to be able to see, to understand quickly what characters are doing.
The most important mechanics towards RP are therefore things such as movements, emotes, items uses, etc. (including art and sounds).

For example, if you're busy reading a book, you can type "/me is reading a book", yet you would have to stay aware of your surroundings and type it every time someone passes by. Obviously, we'd rather see your 3d model reading.
I have no idea how much is planned on that matter, but I believe there could never be too many emotes. There are dozens of obvious ones to start with. The day we can see a complex dance performed by a character, or guess what someone is cooking by simply observing what he is doing, is a rich RP day.

So that is for feeding the characters' senses and the players' immersion. Then there are all the mechanics that concern character to character interactions. Most of them are hard to design, for they shall allow actions upon others without trespassing on others' pleasure. You guys already work on combat, thieving, spells, etc., and each of these subjects is vast and controversial enough so that I won't add anything here.
Except for one thing: with a dueling system, you have plenty of fighters already; when you'll implement thieving skills, there will suddenly be plenty of rogues as well; and so on. No problem with that, yet it does promote strange demographics. So, maybe, it would be good to develop more innocent systems in parallel, some entirely devoted to RP; like the marriage mechanics PS has. Anything like hairdressing or handshaking or being able to carry people on one's shoulders or whatnot.

Finally, there are the mechanics that make the PS world alive. All those I can think of a priori are work in progress already: weather, moving NPCs, etc. I have no suggestions there... at the moment.

[Illysia]

I'm with Khoridor; the visual is important. I would love to see more animations and emote states (like sitting reading a book).

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

you are describing things that require art, this thread is about mechanics, let's focus on what engine can do to make your rp richer.

All this about animations/costumes/emotes that are graphical is not useful in THIS discussion.

[Under the moon]

Illysia, you have never trained people in the game. That is impossible. What you have done is to teach people to use the mechanics. A worthy cause, indeed, but not what I meant. It is silly for you to have skills in cooking (or any other skill), yet not be able to pass those skills on to anyone else. Instead, you have to send them off to an NPC to pay with money and PP.

Roleplaying is about people interacting with each other and basically creating a story. There are countless stories out there of a new person finding someone they can learn from who becomes their mentor, and zero that I can think of where the skilled person says "Yes, I know these skills, but sadly I can not teach you because I don't have the ability to take PP."

[Illysia]

I was talking about training people to RP UTM.

[zanzibar]

Players use to train each other.  The trainer would allow the trainee to attack him while in full defensive stance.  But then the devs changed it so you can't level that way.

Any level reduction system would have to be gradual (like say over the course of a year), as people don't play all the time. Otherwise, it would be more trouble than help, but I still think it would be a better idea. There is no reason to make it drop whole levels at a time either. The great thing about the current PP system is that it already provides increments for skills to decrease. You could say lose X amount of PP from the total you have spent on a skill over y amount of time.

Here's the thing:  Skills you use won't decay.  That means that if you use an armor skill and a couple fighting skills, and you mine on the side, those skills are safe.  Also, someone might be able to be competent at mining, metallurgy, and crafting.  But people who specialize in two of those skills or even just one will have an easier time getting to a super super high degree of competency where you're making gold and platinum ingots right and left or making 250-300 quality weapons.

Basically, people won't be able to max out every skill, and it won't be possible to grind so much that you "beat the game" by having every fighting skill maxed, every magic skill maxed, and every trade skill maxed all at the same time.  If you're going to be a weapons master with amazing skill in every weapon class, you won't be using magic or crafting weapons.  If you're a Merlin type figure who has mastery over every way, you'll be a rare breed and you won't also be using weapons.

Basically, being a jack of all trades should mean being master of none.

[khoridor]

Ok, I take it that the mechanics are already there and that only art needs to be added then.

Well, for something that does concern perceptions without involving any art, here is something I've had in mind for a while (and still is at an early stage of processing): a hearing system would be  .
It would include, in no particular order:
- a voice volume, based on the /say - /shout mechanism, to reduce or increase the range of the chat.
- a hearing process. What is said by others would become more and more cryptic with distance (or their whispering). Hearing could even be a skill and/or a racial trait.
- a voice strain mechanism. Speak loud for too long and you lose your range, and even break your voice.
- of course, related spells (deafening, range increase, etc.)
- some acoustic rules: basically, local variations of sound range, from dampening rooms to audible theater stages.
- what else ?

It's roughly presented and needs a lot of input, but still easier to achieve than a smell engine. 

[StitchedChin]

I say you already have mechanics in PS that just need to be improved to improve Roleplaying, Factions.  I got hooked on these things early on, thinking that if I was nice to everyone and the most helpful dwarf, my factions would really show off the character I was trying to be.  I thought the consequences of my actions would improve my character more than just killing Ulbernauts and paying someone to increase my stats and skills.  If actions are computed and adjust factions, then that may support roleplay on a more consistent level.  I think I read what UTM said correctly, but I agree that the current PPs system isn't the greatest and could be done away with.  Maybe factions as a substitute could be something to look into.  Consequences for your actions I think are very important when it comes to roleplaying, so having some way to support that would be pretty fun.  Some examples of what I mean would be:

1)  Should it be possible to be maxed in Dark Way and Crystal Way, or if you train Crystal Way should your faction for Dark Way go down or vice versa?

2)  If I kill someone in PvP, should my Good, Guard and Law Faction go down if the person I killed had a Good and Lawful Faction alignment?

3)  If I trade and constantly sell and buy for decent prices that makes my customers happy, shouldn't my Merchant Way faction increase?

This of course is probably more complicated than these simple points, but roleplaying can always be done in a chat room, making roleplaying more popular and fun in a game is always going to be more difficult, but when accomplished will have a very nice niche in the gaming world.