The subject of what a roleplaying game exactly 'is'

[zanzibar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkCNJRfSZBU


And for Xillix's next poll:

"PlaneShift is an RPG with an emphasis on staying in character."
vs
"PlaneShift is an MMO with an emphasis on roleplaying."

Player numbers are way down, rp (as argued for here) alone will never bolster the game or speed its development pace.

Right.  The game itself needs to be fun or else no one will play (unless they're just looking for a chat game).

I feel that ps painted itself into a corner with the rp obsession and supported the advent of the new lax server to try to preserve the safe haven for rpers while not turning off the more typical type of player.

I think that the RP obsession is responsible for PS's successes.  It makes it unique.  Very few longtime players would have stayed if it wasn't for the RP aspects of the game.  If PlaneShift didn't have the RP element, it would be strictly worse than numerous other MMOs.

[Prolix]

Roleplaying is not a word. Role-playing is a compound word. RPG is an acronym for Role Playing Game, if it was Role-playing Game then it would just be RG or perhaps RpG. This means that it is a Game that entails Playing a Role not a game that focuses on Role-playing. Role means "the actions and activities assigned to or required or expected of a person or group" If you are going through the actions of your character then you are playing a role whether or not you flesh it out with idiosyncrasies that serve to make you character unique. When I created bilbous I took on the role of an ugly blue humanoid that lived in this weird world. The fact that I may have little personality does not change that I am playing that role.

I have not played World of Warcraft, as I said before, but if I did I believe I would take on the role of a mage so that I could be like my hero neko. If I never interacted with any other player, say by running my own unofficial server I would still be role playing. Would the NPC's notice if I had a lisp? I do not think so.

[zanzibar]

Roleplaying is not a word. Role-playing is a compound word. RPG is an acronym for Role Playing Game, if it was Role-playing Game then it would just be RG or perhaps RpG. This means that it is a Game that entails Playing a Role not a game that focuses on Role-playing. Role means "the actions and activities assigned to or required or expected of a person or group" If you are going through the actions of your character then you are playing a role whether or not you flesh it out with idiosyncrasies that serve to make you character unique. When I created bilbous I took on the role of an ugly blue humanoid that lived in this weird world. The fact that I may have little personality does not change that I am playing that role.

I have not played World of Warcraft, as I said before, but if I did I believe I would take on the role of a mage so that I could be like my hero neko. If I never interacted with any other player, say by running my own unofficial server I would still be role playing. Would the NPC's notice if I had a lisp? I do not think so.

Are you trying to make people angry?  Roleplaying obviously means playing your character, and playing your character obviously involves conducting yourself in a way that is consistent with that character.  That includes making the decisions your character would make, as well as keeping with the character's personality.  There are various degrees, but the ideal is fairly obvious.

[Prolix]

So what, RPG is RolePlayinG and the heck with anything else? So the winner is the one with the best ability to express themselves? What rot.

[neko kyouran]

at least I have chicken.

[Under the moon]

I would like to clarify what I meant in my first post. My comment was not about WoW being or not being an RPG, as it is. My comment was about what most of the people there do, and think they are playing an RPG.

Let me break it down in another way. Let's say you have a soccer field. It is designed to play soccer, it has soccer balls for playing soccer, and the game of soccer has its set rules. The people that play soccer follow the rules pretty closely. They are playing a soccer game.

Now, take that same field and fill it with people who think the rules for soccer are 'stupid' and 'pointless'. They grab the ball with their hands, use it to hit other players, see who can kick it higher, etc. Put all those people in the soccer field. The field is still a soccer field, and the people playing still think they are playing on a soccer field, but is it really a soccer game anymore if no one is playing soccer? And does it leave room for those people who are still trying to play by the rules?

That is what I meant by 'most people' in WoW, as most people are playing in an RPG, but they are not playing the RPG aspect of the game, only the MMO.


Edit: If everyone would have gone by "do what is most popular and gets the most people", then many of the 'greats' in our history would not have existed.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

They never would have been great if they hadn't eventually "gotten the most people"

[Bguy]

role-play

 to assume the attitudes, actions, and discourse of (another), esp. in a make-believe situation

Don't all games with main characters have you assume their actions by making choices for them? So, if you go by definition, any game with characters is and RPG. In Monopoly, for example, aren't you assuming the actions of the Car or Thimble in order to make it, so in essence you, rich? I don't think that RPG should be such a high standard word since its definition is broad, but I also think that WoW and other games deemed "RPG's" don't fit the definition of "role-playing" that many associate it with. If you want to separate PS and other games based on fully being the character, I suggest you choose a more specific word. Playacting game?

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Let me say this: Rpers are presenting a false dichotomy here.

What's being said (or implied) is that if you don't focus solely on working on rp content and mechanics which support it ps will cease to be original. Rpers are what holds the game together. Etc... If PS takes on aspects that make it more similar to professional games rp will die, grinding kills rp, the game should be easier so grinders get bored faster and leave (preserving the rp playground).

So the dilemma simply put is this either ps wholeheartedly embraces and supports rp in all its choices (specifically in the manner prescribed by VERY vocal few people) or it will fail to be special.

Core problem with this point: Our rpers are leaving to play professional games.

I can see no harm in focusing on making the game more fun to play for everyone.

 

[zanzibar]

So what, RPG is RolePlayinG and the heck with anything else? So the winner is the one with the best ability to express themselves? What rot.

That's a misrepresentation of what I posted.

Let me say this: Rpers are presenting a false dichotomy here.

What's being said (or implied) is that if you don't focus solely on working on rp content and mechanics which support it ps will cease to be original. Rpers are what holds the game together. Etc... If PS takes on aspects that make it more similar to professional games rp will die, grinding kills rp, the game should be easier so grinders get bored faster and leave (preserving the rp playground).

Grinding is boring for most people, not just Rpers.  The reason people put up with it in other games is because of the rewards that go along with it.  Typically, being able to do basic or fundamental things should not require a lot of grinding.

Core problem with this point: Our rpers are leaving to play professional games.

Yes, sometimes because they feel that there isn't a dynamic, healthy, player/roleplayer community/environment for them here.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

On second thought: Never mind.

Go back to pointlessly trying to define what a role playing game is without me.

[Hanix]

OH MY CHRIST ON A BIKE!!!!!!!!!!!
Dont you people ever get sick of arguing the same crap, thread after thread after trhead after thread??? If your RP skills were anywhere near as good as your heads are big. And maybe if you could even think of an original argument instead of the same old crap day after day. Then maybe just maybe people would start actrualy listening to you instead of laughing at you.. And i can assure you, THEY ARE.... Get over yourslves..

[verden]

RPG is a specific type of game that includes character individuation, development and choice. It is a mechanical term that refers to a structure of rules. It does not refer to the style of acting that is used by the players. PlaneShift and WoW are both RPGs. PlaneShift does not have as many props as WoW, this is true. But PlaneShift does have enough, and a variety of settings as well. It is sufficent as a stage to allow for all manner of *acting*. And the three-OS distro is perfect, nobody is excluded. WoW doesn't have that.

[zanzibar]

Seems to me like people are talking about a lot more than just the definition of RP.

[Hanix]

The fact that you people need to descuss the 'definition of RP' outside of the nooby section at all tells us a lot. Give up, Grow up and move on.
Draw a line under this topic, stop trying to have the last word and actualy TRY to be constructive.. Its not hard..