The subject of what a roleplaying game exactly 'is'

[Akkaido Kivikar]

Define "roleplay".

I think its when you stay in character 24/7, have NO fun, and troll anyone with anger, hatred and flaming, if they actually get any fun out of the game.

I shall misquote XilliX and attmept to make him look stupid 'cos I am more awesome than him, despite NOT being in charge of the division of the devteam responsible for RP, and not having the 20 years experience he has.

Why would I do this? Because I'm just like one of the silly RP-nazis above who want to spend all day trying to force everyone to conform to the standard I want out of the game.

[I hereby declare you all fools. You're the kind of people PS doesn't need if you want to spend all day RPing and not having any fun. PlaneShift is a GAME. GAMEs are FUN. Or must we change the description to a RPW?]

[neko kyouran]

   

[Hanix]

[zanzibar]

Let's keep it nice.

[neko kyouran]

Let's keep it nice.

indeed

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

In the interest of keeping it nice . . .

[zanzibar]

Back to the topic, Xillix is right that people have left the game.  But it isn't because of the game's focus on RP.  It's because the player community has been dwindling for some time.  It's still possible to have fun playing the game, but it's different now than it use to be.

Mathy and I were talking about it at one point and the idea we came up with was to go around and poll players who use to be active here but have since left.  I think there's a wealth of information there to be found.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

I don't agree, many of them told us why they were leaving or still speak to us frequently.

[Garile]

OK... and here I was glad to see so many people had posted but it seems that some people are annoyed but can't form actual arguments.

Again I have played WoW I have leveled to lvl 80 and all my characters in PS that I played a lot are leveled aswell.

I am not some elitist roleplayer or from any sort of roleplaynazi corner some here seem to try to push me.

I wont respond to the posts that are made becuase well most obviously haven't even read the arguments or ignored them to rant on how bad it is to rant or something *rolls eyes*

I really enjoyed World of Warcraft. If it were free I would probably still be playing it now and then. But I also like roleplaying that I learned here in PS and also encountered on several Neverwinter Nights servers.

And personally the idea of roleplaying being the goal of World of Warcraft is just laughable.

Do I think this argument will suddenly make the masses change their mind and no longer use the term RPG for the group of games it is used for at the moment? Ofcourse not, but I do feel there is the group of Roleplaying Games and games where you actually roleplay.

PS: I think the reason that the new recruits are less is obvious. 5 years ago the graphics of PS were cutting edge for a free game. But looks at games made in the nineties and how they look today. At the moment we simply stopped attracting people on looks. In five more years we will have to atract peole despite looks.

Ofcourse there are other reasons but don't underestimate the power of first impressions.

[Akkaido Kivikar]

The goal of WoW is to make money.

The goal of PlaneShift is to make an immersive, yet fun world.

Not to create a forum for the discussion/arguing of what a true RPG is.

When you all get high-ranking positions on the dev team, I'll listen to your arguments. Until then my OOC politeness is only towards those who deserve it, devs, newbs who don't know better, and players who play, and don't whine all day about what they think needs changing depite the fact the game is not theirs to change.

[Illysia]

Akkaido, your complaining is not more valid and there is no need to be that negative it makes matters worse.


I believe the reason people are leaving PS to play professional games is because they are already finished to some degree. I play other games, it's because they have more graphics (not better) and more developed (again not better) mechanics. If PS was closer to ver. 1.00 then people would hang around a little better. As it is, PS has to compete with games that can churn out new stuff every few weeks. It seems that the real problem is that the Dev team needs more support to keep up. There is nothing wrong with the game as it is, it's just unfinished.

[zanzibar]

Players come for the game and stay for the community.

[Akkaido Kivikar]

I wasn't complaining, I was merely demonstrating how pointless this debating is.

Rather than all saying the same thing and patting each other on the back for your truly enlightening definition of an RPG, why don't you all actually put some work into making PlaneShift into the game it was intended to be. Yes, what it was intended to be, not a rendition of what you intend it to be.

An RPG can incorporate any element of RP. RP is a very wide term which can envelop any Role, or any style of Play (Role+Play). The thing that should be taken into account before all other letters in RPG is the G. Game. Games only have one (1) purpose. To be FUN for the target audience. I capitalise all the letters of FUN, because it is vitally important and it often feels the forum community loses the idea of good light FUN in their squabbles over officiality, and what is in your opinion good RP.

Good RP as a whole requires only three things:

1: Adherance to publicly known and easily available Settings knowledge (No, I'm not going to trawl through every book in the library just to see if my Guild fits in perfectly).

2: Acceptance of other players styles and use of RP, and a bit of common sense and goodwill when things aren't going your way.

3: A good attitude OOC, not insulting other players for who they are, how they RP, and their POVs over the ways RPs should go. (This is the most commonly broken guideline that I have seen).

A decent RP style encompasses only two things:

1) The portrayal of your character, whoever he/she may be.

2) Not tailoring your OOC to match your IC.

I know many players who's character = the player, and to be frank I like them the most. The players who say "hey what's up" in my tells without brackets because they know its OOC to tell me from Hydlaa when I'm probably in BD or Ojaveda. The ones who invite me to their groups for some OOC joking and kidding around over who I'm apparently marrying in-game. The players who dance ridiculously in circles around me when I'm afk or writing this post. They are the gem of PlaneShift, the ones who adhere to the rules and treat everyone with respect, and don't waste their time with petty bickering over what they want PlaneShift to be for them. The players who simply are grateful PlaneShift exists. The ones who don't say "[and that was a nice spot of RP]" after every event or player interaction IC.

The ones who play the Game, for the most important part of it, the FUN for them and all they meet.

Those are the players I take my hat off too.

[Mathy Stockington]

I would like to clarify what I meant in my first post. My comment was not about WoW being or not being an RPG, as it is. My comment was about what most of the people there do, and think they are playing an RPG.

Let me break it down in another way. Let's say you have a soccer field. It is designed to play soccer, it has soccer balls for playing soccer, and the game of soccer has its set rules. The people that play soccer follow the rules pretty closely. They are playing a soccer game.

Now, take that same field and fill it with people who think the rules for soccer are 'stupid' and 'pointless'. They grab the ball with their hands, use it to hit other players, see who can kick it higher, etc. Put all those people in the soccer field. The field is still a soccer field, and the people playing still think they are playing on a soccer field, but is it really a soccer game anymore if no one is playing soccer? And does it leave room for those people who are still trying to play by the rules?

That is what I meant by 'most people' in WoW, as most people are playing in an RPG, but they are not playing the RPG aspect of the game, only the MMO.


Edit: If everyone would have gone by "do what is most popular and gets the most people", then many of the 'greats' in our history would not have existed.

I think all of you missed the point of this thread that Under the Moon was trying to make. Think about it some more.

Back to the topic, Xillix is right that people have left the game.  But it isn't because of the game's focus on RP.  It's because the player community has been dwindling for some time.  It's still possible to have fun playing the game, but it's different now than it use to be.

Mathy and I were talking about it at one point and the idea we came up with was to go around and poll players who use to be active here but have since left.  I think there's a wealth of information there to be found.

Now that I no longer play I understand how the people who left feel. No poll is necessary. It is a feeling that PS has let us down in some way. The role play that we enjoyed with the community we loved to play with is gone.

As for you Hanix; Role Play will be a subject that all people will talk about for years to come if PlaneShift is about role play. That is if PS will still be about role play. The big question is what direction is it going in?

[Mordraugion]

Now that I no longer play I understand how the people who left feel. No poll is necessary. It is a feeling that PS has let us down in some way. The role play that we enjoyed with the community we loved to play with is gone.

PS let you down? or more likely you let PS down by expecting others to supply the role play that you "loved to play so much" and not being prepared to step up prefering to blame others for your lack of gumption?

The big question is what direction is it going in?

Its going in the direction those that create the content, code the engine and actually play the game instead of whining, lead