What happened?

[Garile]

OK some might think this post to be corny and perhaps it is but it is something that does bother me.

What happened to the respect people had to eachother on these forums?

In the thread "The subject of what a roleplaying game exactly 'is' " people seem to be just bashing people without arguments. The most strange is that a moderator then a GM and then a developer also make posts without arguments.

What happened to making posts that have arguments to proof your point and listening to eachother?

When I first joined these forums people here in general were accepting and although arguments could get heated people atleast listened to eachother and if they didn't like the discusion just stayed out of it instead of trying to kill the discusion with pointless posts or attacking someone personally.

Discusion should be about hearing eachothers opinion and trying to get closer to eachother or atleast trying to get where the other is coming from. I have to admit I don't like the tone of how the discusion started in the first place but look where it's now.

I think we all agree the discusion as it is isn't going to help anything. People have been pushed in corners and most posts don't even hold arguments anymore.

I have been called a RP-nazi who needs to get of that high horse and stop sitting in the tavern telling tales I never actually did. Besides it being factual intrue it's pushing someone in a corner.

Shouldn't PS be about having fun? Shouldn't we atleast try to have a good time together in the game but also here on the forums?

So please people think about your posts and don't attack people personally even when an argument gets heated. Let's all just have fun and enjoy this community. Please respect that people will have different opinions.

Anyhow this isn't becuase I myself got the feeling of getting bashed needlessly seeing I'm not going anywhere, but it does worry me that atleast part of the community apparently thinks this is normal these days.

PS: thanks for reading it and I hope the corny factor wasn't to bad

[Dalgin Xawanda]

I agree!

P.S. If I am in agreement, do I have to have an argument?   

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Nothing I said was directed at you. In fact, I doubt much of what was said was directed at you. Your posts didn't troll or flame anyone.

There is built up animosity between certain parties and people are waving their middle fingers at each other some in plain text and others in subtext.

I think it's ego Garile, plain and simple.

Incidentally I think that thread was pointless. If I am the developer you mention that made posts without arguments I am having a hard to seeing that. One post I removed and edited because I was tired of feeding the troll. All my other posts do present an argument.

Why another thread?

[Garile]

*smiles and shrugs*

I'm not pointing at anyone in particular. The GM,,moderator and developer I only mentioned becuase it shows how widespread this anomosity as you call it is. I think pointing at people and making a list of who did what isn't nececary. The discusion I mentioned stands on it's own and think everyone who reads it will agree that it isn't constructive and is only making more bad blood.

Why another thread?

Becuase in that thread the anomosity is already high and the thread is already corrupted so to speak. If I did make this post there i was afraid some might feel I was pointing fingers.

As I said the post might be concidered corny so some might not feel it important enough for a seperate thread. but to be honest I feel that when we can't seem to treat one another with basic respect. That this is a lot more worthy of a thread then the topic to discus if WoW should be called a true RPG or not.

The first thing we can change together. If we want.

[Lhaa]

Uhm, if you felt offended by my post let me apologize, but yeah, I indeed intended to cut it. Why?
Well you just have to read the whole last two pages.

We have hundreds of threads about how good it was and about how RP-nazis don't let us have fun, I seriously don't think another one is needed.
That was not the thread's purpose but you see, this is how "discussions" here end like most often.

I'm not a very poster (due to this)... I'm not even a player at this -very- point. But honestly, if I had to decide wether to play or not considering what I usually read in these forums I most likely wouldn't. Lucky (or unlucky some kickass people keeps me still hooked to the game.


...I do agree with your point for this thread, I guess the difference is I already gave up on making sense here long ago.

[Hanix]

There is no point in flogging a dead horse. There is no need to post arguments with statements that have already been made 300 times before. Respect is lost for people when they hard on about the same crap over and over again. My argument here is simple, read the forums, find how many threads there are about what RP is and such. Once you have read one you have read them all. No backup statements are needed when telling someone to change the record. And just so the GM team doesn’t get the blame for anything I may have said, I am no longer a GM. I am now on the settings team. The reason staff are acting so passionately and defensively is because the morons in this forums, and you all know who you are, are constantly trying to undermined and belittle the work the staff are doing. I won’t harp on about volunteer work etc, but maybe if the community and the vocal morons around here showed a little respect and gratitude rather than picking fights all the time, the forums would be a much nicer place to visit.

Incidentally, this is not an angry post, though I see it may seem that way. It’s the fact as they stand. People just tire of having to defend all that they do. Still, im smiling, im enjoying myself, as I know many, many others are too.

[Mathy Stockington]

Geez, That means you all still love me. I think that is so great!! 

* Mathy Stockington laughs

Thanks

[Under the moon]

Peanut Butter!!
Remember the power it has.

Edit: People have forgotten to be sweet and stick together, much like peanut butter sticks two pieces of bread together. Without the power of peanut butter, you just have two pieces of stale bread on the cupboard that no one wants to eat unless they have nothing else.

[Garile]

@Lhaa

No not offended

Thank you for your reply

Well I can see how that can be annoying. Still I felt that some people made the argument into that themselves while at the same time complaining that it turned into that kind of argument. Afterall analyzing WOW shouldn't have to turn into an RPnazi versus powerleveler argument (please do read that with the humor that I wrote it with hehe)

@Hanix

With all due respect Hanix if that is you happy I would hate to meet you in a dark alley when you are mad *whistles innocently*

Butl seriously if you can see how people can read that as an angry post and it apparently annoys you so why do you post that way? Your post shows you have thought about it so you should also realize posting that way will in all likelyhood get someone to respond in the same way.

I mean the best way to make sure an argument keeps popping up and is never resolved is if you make people dig in. The moment people start acting defensive they aren't really listening anymore.

Anyhow as PS stands now can we really afford to have two parts of the community feuding?

@Mathy
Yeah we all luv ya

@Moon
How could I forget lol

Darn you Moon for your editing while I'm replying hehe

We should be one Peanutbutter sandwich insteead of two pieces of bread genius

[Prolix]

There wouldn't be so much arguing if people would just realize that I am usually right. Just ask my roommate! 



Unless, of course, I happen to be wrong at any given time. 

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

I think a key thing to remember is to try to avoid inflammatory topics all together.

We will never be able to define rp adequately.

A certain class of rpers will always blame grind and plers for the ills of the game and that is reciprocated.

We don't stand to learn much by crying about who has left and why, people move on, it's quite normal.

Discussions about the devs being lazy, or unfair, or abusive will never lead to a good end.

Nuanced versions of the above discussions will lead to flames.

Much like irl we don't discuss politics or religion in mixed company, the above are to be avoided.

I also agree moderation is lax and some of the inflammatory posters need to be removed so the less polarized people can discuss things without the trolling.

[zanzibar]

It's not a new problem.  There have been rude players and rude developers since I started playing.

With the RP vs PL debate, I think certain people have lost their patience.  I also think there's a fair bit of paranoia flying around.  And when you have enough people acting poorly, it means more people can get away with it.  Flame wars are the result.  People are more worried about winning than helping.  If we can start thinking about how to help PlaneShift rather than how to win whatever the current disagreement is, we can move forward and grow as a community.




Edit:  Calls for stricter moderation aren't new either.  I'm looking for a good example of an old discussion on it...

Edit 2:  After looking through some old threads, I'm surprised to see that a lot of people in the past didn't feel we had a problem, even while I was calling for stricter moderation.  People even thought I was being too strict.  Now, it seems like the forums are more peaceful (as long as we aren't talking about the definition of RP), but more people are complaining.  Very confusing.

[Illysia]

The reason staff are acting so passionately and defensively is because the morons in this forums, and you all know who you are, are constantly trying to undermined and belittle the work the staff are doing. I won’t harp on about volunteer work etc, but maybe if the community and the vocal morons around here showed a little respect and gratitude rather than picking fights all the time, the forums would be a much nicer place to visit.

Incidentally, this is not an angry post, though I see it may seem that way. It’s the fact as they stand. People just tire of having to defend all that they do. Still, im smiling, im enjoying myself, as I know many, many others are too.

Angry or not, that kind of post is not helpful either. Calling people morons, whether warranted or not is generally the kind of stuff that gives people inclined to complain the ammo needed to fire up a good, long rant against somebody. Doing a little better on both sides would help greatly. Not that it would be perfect mind you.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

I read that thread, I thought it was quite ironic.

Do a search for "Zanzibar troll" you'll get a kick out of the results.

[zanzibar]

One thing that was ironic about it was that it was a thread about being kinder to one another, and yet personal attacks started to appear.