Author Topic: Obnoxious Magic Users  (Read 7329 times)

kaerli2

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2009, 04:18:39 am »
3) You shouldn't be able to tell that someone is a mage by looking at them, unless they are one of those crazy folk who put their Glyphs on display...

I beg to differ. Mages always have ways of being noticed. Whether carrying a staff rather than a weapon, wearing simple or elaborate cloaks rather than armour, a notable amount of literature hanging out of a pocket or backsack....

There's always the tell-tale wand too.
You sure as heck would completely overlook Alliva then!  He's one of the best mages Kaerli's ever known, that's for sure!

That...and what I meant by "putting your Glyphs on display" encompasses what you mentioned too...in a metaphorical sense that is :)

Translation: Mages can stand out like sore thumbs if they want to, but they sure as heck don't have to.  Alliva wears full plate and carries swords and axes with him...no big stack o' papers, either.  Maanhar can be spied with papers and parchments all the time, but he sure as heck isn't a magic wielder! (He's a cartographer, actually)

zanzibar

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2009, 04:43:47 am »
I kind of question the use of the word mages in all of this... to me, a mage is someone who would specialize in using magic.  But every advanced magic user I've met is also a master of arms.
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Zalera13

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2009, 09:51:59 am »
Thats because its very difficult to be a mage with out first being a person who uses weapons to fight (warrior) or anything else for that matter you have to be a warriot to become anything else, even if for just a short time.
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Sen

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2009, 02:45:34 pm »
I agree from game mechanics point of view; simply because you literally can not kill anything with magic in the beginning (correct me if Im wrong). That means; I simply can not become a mage without having used (not advanced in) a weapon or melee.
Apart from game mechanics I'd welcome mages who are not so talented in 'bodily' fighting.

Sen
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kaerli2

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2009, 03:27:33 am »
Unless the concept of mana is going to disappear from PS...I think it's unwise to have a pure magic user anyway for one simple reason: What'cha gonna do if all you can do is cast spells and yer outta mana?

Prolix

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2009, 08:28:40 am »
drink a pot or 50

kaerli2

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2009, 04:52:56 am »
drink a pot or 50


Well...guzzling mana pots is one option...albeit not a pretty one.
* kaerli2 looks at the mess on the youthful mage's shirt.

Zalera13

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2009, 05:56:56 am »
With a low level mage there are a few key problems 1) You cant kill anything with any effectivity. You are better off attacking with level 0 melee than magic 2) You run out WILL run out of mp. Mp drains faster than Physical Stamina does when fighting. A spell takes more Mp than an attack takes Stamina and it does less damage, mp also regenerates slower. 3) if you are a mage you will have a low End and Str at the begining of the game. This makes most armor useless and also makes it hard to kill things 4) magic is expensive it cost alot and does not repay you till much later. Like i said low level magic cant kill anything well so you will be training in somthing that will be useless for a while.

Correct me if im wrong on any of these points
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zanzibar

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2009, 06:55:09 am »
I suspect that magic will be radically different in the future.  Mana might even be eliminated from the mechanics.
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Zalera13

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2009, 09:00:06 am »
3) You shouldn't be able to tell that someone is a mage by looking at them, unless they are one of those crazy folk who put their Glyphs on display...

I beg to differ. Mages always have ways of being noticed. Whether carrying a staff rather than a weapon, wearing simple or elaborate cloaks rather than armour, a notable amount of literature hanging out of a pocket or backsack....

There's always the tell-tale wand too.

True and if a mage wants to be noticed then there are ways to do that. There is a Red Way spell that makes you very noticable. And to go back to the origanal topic it takes alot of work to be good at one way much less all of them dont roleplay what your not. If you do have all the ways mastered then great feel free to roleplay that you do. but if yuo only know the most basi spells then dont pretend to be a master mage, its just stupid to do so,a and keep in mind your character can and more likely thant not will. change
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Garile

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2009, 02:13:11 pm »
Lets asume the magicuser is wearing normal clothes keeps his study material at home and only has a glyphsack under his clothing.

Magic desn't need a wand or a staff so how do you recognize one? How do you know he isn't simply a scribe working for the octarchy?

As for the magic user being useless at low levels I agree, but isn't that realistic aswell? I think it would require more study to effectively use how to focus your energy then how to swim your sword.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 02:46:04 pm by Garile »
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zanzibar

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2009, 03:03:37 pm »
Discussions about how to realistically implement magic are kind of odd when you think about them. :)
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Garile

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2009, 04:58:35 pm »
hmm depends how you clasify realistic. If magic would exist it would have rules. The reason a lot of fantasy novels fail is becuase the magic doesn't make sence. If magic is all powerfull one minute and can't do anything the other minute it's not realistic in my eyes.

Same goes for novels where magic is so powerfull that every problem gets solved with it. You start to wonder why they just didn't use magic earlier and why they made such a fuss over something that is sollved so easily.

In PS the setting tells us a bit about how magic works, also ingame we know how hard it is to train and what the effects are. That means magic in PS isn't something anymore where everything is possible.
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Zalera13

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2009, 12:43:01 am »
Realistic magic? Anyway almost everyone will know SOME magic even if its just a Cyrstal way healing spell. I hope that there ae more non-combat spells added. Like magic light, or create food, or anythign like that would be great.
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Skrein

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Re: Obnoxious Magic Users
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2009, 01:12:09 am »
The problem with magic is that we see it as just that - magic. People in Yliakum, however, see magic as an everyday part of life, almost. We, as players (and I suppose as Yliakumites, too) don't know the limits of magic - what you're "allowed" to do, and what you're not...where your boundaries are, how far you can go with it, what you can do with it. If there was a glyph to make someone explode from the inside, it would seem perfectly natural for the people of Yliakum, but for us, it isn't realistic in the least.

Where's the problem I mentioned earlier? The problem is, glyphs seem to have no real limit. They can do anything that they're designed for, but there's only a "line" that can't be crossed because there may or may not be a glyph for the desired person-exploding effect. Therefore, people create their own spells outside of the glyphs in order to get their desired effect. Is the effect realistic? To them, yes, to us, no. In order for magic to seem realistic, there needs to be more of an explanation, more of a design scheme, than just "it's a glyph, it's a tool, you use it, no more questions".

What I'm saying is, when people are limited to just glyphs, they feel like they should be able to do more, therefore...they do. They create their own rules to make up for the lack of rules ingame so far, and try to explain to people "my character can create a hole in the ground by using mana to..."...hope you get my point.

Edit: Now that I've read a few posts... :P

To implement magic, you need to quit looking at it as magic. To us, like I explained earlier, magic isn't realistic. To the people in the world where you're trying to implement this magic, it is. Therefore, instead of calling it magic, call it something else, and give it rules where "okay, you can create a fireball, but you can't make your eyes turn red", "okay, you can make the sky rain fire, but you can't condense someone into a tiny ball of flesh".

"Magic" needs rules and limits in order to work logically in a game, especially a roleplaying game. I really don't see many rules for Planeshift's magic; it seems to be able to do everything, but only if there's a glyph. Glyphs themselves don't have much explanation, since Talad suddenly creates all of these weird little objects that can make thorns stick out of your skin or water circulate your body...why? And something else I noticed with PS - when questions about magic are asked, they're answered with "it's magic!" (see Levrus); if that's the case, magic seems even more unrealistic to the people of Yliakum than it does to us, and if that's the case (with no real effort being made to understand it), then that's...well, fail.

And yes, I ramble on a lot. I type what comes to mind, so I hope it's legible.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 01:20:44 am by Skrein »