'What makes me steam' suggestion guide

[Bovek Pelequn]

What Garlie describes falls squarely under the heading of Player Harassment, and is prohibited.  We'd prefer such incidents didn't happen, or that they'd be resolved quickly among yourselves, however you have options:

1) Call in the Help Tab of the chat.  Any GM online is monitoring that channel automatically.
2) use /report <CharacterName> to have their chat with you recorded for GM review, including last 5 minutes or so.
3) file a petition naming the offenders and location and some brief details

Accumulation of logs, reports, and observations by GM's will lead to appropriate consequences.

[Skrein]

How can you prove harassment from competition? I was competing for rogues in the arena with some other guys and they actually called a gm over to the area which froze me in place and started telling me to go to other rogues in the arena...I'm not harassing anyone, but maybe I just want to kill those rogues because they're in abundance?

[Dajoji]

Each situation is different so we observe. If we determine that the competition is only there to ruin the other player's fun it's harassment.

If you are just minding your business and sharing the mobs, it's ok.

If you are even competing for the fun of it, it's ok too.

If you are doing it so they get bored and leave, it's really not ok.

[zanzibar]

When people send me a duel challenge without explanation, sometimes I'll just leave the window open on my screen and not answer it one way or the other.  It will time out eventually, but in the meantime they'll be worrying about a sneak attack.

I agree that what Garile described is harassment and it's good to see the GMs are eager to help out with it.  I've seen several different guilds do things like that at different times, so I don't think it's a limited problem.  It's just something to stay on top of.  Hopefully, it will leave the PS culture eventually once enough people understand how it affects others.  There's been a bit of a gang mentality among some players at some points in PS's history.  I think it might be a case of one group doing it, then other groups mimic it in either self defense or because they think it's ok since others are doing it as well.

I think the answer to a lot of these things is to simply not let it affect you too much.  Most people can't get to you unless you let them get to you.

[Skrein]

Each situation is different so we observe. If we determine that the competition is only there to ruin the other player's fun it's harassment.

If you are just minding your business and sharing the mobs, it's ok.

If you are even competing for the fun of it, it's ok too.

If you are doing it so they get bored and leave, it's really not ok.

You forgot the part the scenario where you're minding your own business and killing all the mobs. Is this harassment or competition? I need progression points.

[Oomi]

Skrein,

There is no forgetting going on here, it's simply that everyone who has responded to your posts is doing you the credit of assuming you are over 3 years old and know how to share your toys by now. Play nice and don't expect blatantly boorish behavior like hogging a bunch of NPCs to meet with team approval.

Regards,

Oomi

[zanzibar]

You forgot the part the scenario where you're minding your own business and killing all the mobs. Is this harassment or competition? I need progression points.

Minding your own business, then what?  The question is how people react when they feel someone is infringing on their territory.  More to the point, why do they have that feeling at all, since no one can make claim to own a spawn.

[Garile]

*shrugs*

It doesn't really get under my skin like it used to, just felt this thread was a good way to get rid of that last frustration.

reporting someone is kinda hard as there was hardly any chat to proof what happened and the little chat that did happen obviously happened before the guildmates showed up and before that I had no reason to even consider a report.

Have to say i never really did consider calling a GM to sort things out. I just stayed there untill I was done and then left and smiled slightly that he now had to share with four or three of his guildmates instead of just me.

Anyhow I did talk with one of his guildmates about it and hope it wont happen again.

[Skrein]

Skrein,

There is no forgetting going on here, it's simply that everyone who has responded to your posts is doing you the credit of assuming you are over 3 years old and know how to share your toys by now. Play nice and don't expect blatantly boorish behavior like hogging a bunch of NPCs to meet with team approval.

Regards,

Oomi

Hey, let's add some insults to the mix, that makes things better.

competition: rivalry between two or more persons or groups for an object desired in common, usually resulting in a victor and a loser but not necessarily involving the destruction of the latter.

If you're saying that competition is allowed, then why am I not allowed to compete to kill the mobs? You assume that I do it with the intent to be an asshole, but say you're in a situation where you're charged with hunting game to bring back to your starving village, and there are other hunters from other villages there doing the same. There aren't enough animals to feed every village, so you need to be the one to kill them first and keep from letting your fellow villagers starve to death. Do you share those animals with others despite there not being enough, or do you feed your family?

Obviously it isn't quite the case with PS, but you're in a situation where both you and the other person need training, and at certain levels it gets grievous, taking days to train just one level. You set deadlines, either to train for an RP event, or you just want to max that last skill - whatever it is, you're there, and someone else is there, and there aren't enough mobs for you both to get what you need. Sharing only gets you so far, and when you don't know the person or they aren't in your circle (RPer training for RP purposes vs. powerleveler...dead horse example), there really isn't much point in sharing with them. If they're your friend, "hey, you can have this mob, I'll go over here"...you won't mind sharing, and taking more time out of your life to train just so your friend can have some mobs, but personally I don't feel like wasting my time on strangers, since I need to get things done and the supply and demand is balanced more toward the demand.

Summary: you may want to make the game into a sharing carebear society, but that's not how things work in the real world (no, my previous example isn't real world, but I don't feel like explaining stock markets or whatever else I could list off). People kill mobs, hunt, invest, and whatever else, so that they can advance their own benefits, not give things away to random people that they don't know or don't care to know. Taking action against competition is just appealing to complainers that don't feel like putting in the effort to work for the mobs that they want to kill.

[verden]

Falls under the "game taken too seriously" heading, I think. There are no villages starving based on anyone's lack of training in PS. That being said, the number of mobs vs. the greatest number of regular active players is not enough. These sorts of situations will happen so long as there are not enough mobs to go around. The unpredictability of the NPC server definitely aggravates the situation. People want to train, conflicts over resources arise. I won't say just add another area and sprinkle a bunch of mobs about. Nope, I won't say that.

[Mordraugion]

This is a game, not a competition, it is there for people to enjoy playing, if your actions infringe on anothers enjoyment then it causes resentment and anger if you enjoy causing those feelings then I'm sorry for you.

As it is a game there is no pressing need to feed ones family/save a village or whatever justification you can come up with, also as its a game real world scenarios don't really play out so live and let live, if someone comes share a little it may take you an extra 5 minutes to level up but thats not the end of the world.

As for a "carebear society" there is a subtle difference between being a fair Player and and evil Character and I don't see being fair and civil as a player as something wrong.
@Verden: Patience grasshopper, soon (tm)
Edit to add last para

[zanzibar]

I think in the situation that was described, there were open spawns that the griefer was ignoring.  Instead, the griefer was following around the new arrival with the intent to drive away the new arrival.

If someone is going AFK for long periods of time while parked next to a spawn, I don't feel too bad about killing the mob even though someone is standing next to it.  But I don't think that was the situation that was described.

Also, using magic to prevent the new arrival from attacking things is straight up meanness, and quite possibly counts as an exploit although I'm not currently up to date on how that's viewed.  A Game Master will have to weigh in on that.

Ultimately, if you're after a scarce resource that other people want, you'll have to recognize that other people are after it and they have just as much a right to it as you.  I don't like the philosophy that might equals right, however fair competition is a part of the game.  Trying to upset people isn't fair competition though.

[Rennaj]

hmm had something annoying happen.

I walked into the treporpit that has five trepors and wanted to train seeing the NPCserver ws actually up for a change hehe

Trepors were all alive so I felt I was in luck. Apparently someone else was already in the far right corner that I missed seeing three kills later I saw someone magicing "my" fourth trepor to death. "Darn it" I thought but ahh well not like it happens often that you get the treporpit all to yourself (more now with fewer people ofcourse but still ). So I went back and made sure to leave atleast two trepors free for him.

Then he started trying to kill the trepor I was standing next to eventhough one of the trepors I didn't touch was still alive. Now mind you this isn't the irritating part. Well ofcourse I went like wtf in myself but if he wants a competition for the third trepor or something it was his good right in my eyes. In theory it is even his right to try and get them all but that doesn't seem like the civil solution.

The truely irritating part started when he challenged me to a duel still haven't said anything neither in tell nor in main and after I declined he send me a tell that I had no honor that it was a comon unwritten rule that if someone else was in the pit noone else should be there and said i had to be a complete newb for not knowing this.

Well even if this is true (seeing i never heard of such a rule nor experienced other people leaving when I'm first) it is not all to smart in my eyes to start a conversation that way.

So I told him I had heard of no such rule nor ever experienced it and that I really wasn't a newb and did't apreciate being called that but was still willing to be polite about it and share. He didn't reply but suddenly there came a guildmate of his and after a while a third a fourth and even a fifth all trying to make sure I got no trepors at all.

One of the few times I was happy to be majorly dagger.

But yeah I find it irritating when someone starts acusing you of doing something wrong and calling you a newb and all without first having a normal conversation and then trying to bully you by numbers if you don't comply.

Thanks to all for reading this rant.
 Just writing it here to get it of my chest and be done with it.

 Let's brake this bit down.

[ magicing "my" fourth trepor to death.] MY Meaning yours^^
[Trepors were all alive so I felt I was in luck. Apparently someone else was already] Look more closely you said he was using magic, Most magic is very hard to miss seeing.
 [So I went back and made sure to leave atleast two trepors free for him. ]
 Very noble of you you are late there and clam 3 of the 5 ^^
 Now the part were he talks to you, I want to know did you talk to him on noticing he was there. Because to me so far you have been the one to upset the other player, from what you have said, you did nothing or said nothing to this player, yet you condemn them for not talking to you.^^
So going by your own words, from my point of view you started the whole thing.
The player was reacting to your intrusion, I do not blame them for that, also you hint at dagger, yes it is faster, a good way to beat someone and tick them off, as you butted in on his fun, As for calling his Guild mates, do not blame him, give you a bit of your own medicine.

The only thing I disprove of is their challenge and claim  [a comon unwritten rule that if someone else was in the pit noone else should be there ]

But we all must remember there is two sides to a story, so do not make a decision based on solely one side.

[Prolix]

  Half-life2 really makes me steam.

Seriously this is getting a bit much. If you can kill the mobs that fast perhaps you'd be better off fighting different mobs. The main thing that this thread says to me is that mob rewards need to be better balanced. It has seemed to me for a long time that trepor experience is vastly over-rated. 6pps for an onyx dagger versus 10 for a trepor makes little sense since trepors can't hit anyone in leather and OD's can 1-hit just about anyone.

[Dajoji]

(...)
So going by your own words, from my point of view you started the whole thing.
The player was reacting to your intrusion, I do not blame them for that, also you hint at dagger, yes it is faster, a good way to beat someone and tick them off, as you butted in on his fun, As for calling his Guild mates, do not blame him, give you a bit of your own medicine.

The only thing I disprove of is their challenge and claim  [a comon unwritten rule that if someone else was in the pit noone else should be there ]

But we all must remember there is two sides to a story, so do not make a decision based on solely one side.

Yes, there's always two sides to a story and we try to listen to both in every case but let's make one thing absolutely clear here: there was no intrusion here. Players do not have to ask for permission to attack a free mob and a free mob is any mob that is not already engaged in combat with another player.

It is polite to do that. It is appreciated and it really does make the game atmosphere better, but nobody owns spawns and there is no validity in said "unspoken rule". It can be considered rude to take a mob someone else is waiting for without asking to share, but if that happens, nobody has the right to resort to harassment. Likewise, if you are fighting a mob with lvl0 melee or in fully defensive mode just to make the other players wait forever you are harassing them.

Be mature about it and if you don't want to share or compete for the kill, go find another mob. It is a good idea to talk to the person and offer to share, if they are jerks about it you always have the option to call a GM, file a petition and /report. It's your choice to stay or leave but you should not get into a pissing contest or else you'll be the one breaking the rules and getting punished for it.

We GMs will be glad to step in and help but it is the players' responsibility to know the game policies and rules so not knowing them is no excuse. They are available for anyone to see so don't go around making up new ones and for God's sake don't call your guildmates to gang up on other players! That will only get them in trouble too.