Author Topic: Kada-El's Main Entrance  (Read 2834 times)

Mesmer

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Kada-El's Main Entrance
« on: June 10, 2009, 10:06:11 pm »
Just wondering if Kada-El's main entrance was meant to have the doors stuck in the middle, opening outside, in such a funny way. If the tavern doors are always meant to be open, then wouldn't it be better to have a wide entrance with the doors opening inside the tavern but not stuck in the middle or with the doors completely closed to keep the noise level down. Entering the tavern could then be done through an interaction menu and "enter" icon, as with some other doors in the game. Unless, the doors are meant to be an entrance and an exit side by side.

Rigwyn

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Re: Kada-El's Main Entrance
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2009, 11:05:48 pm »

Personally I think its good that they are open for several reasons...

1. It seems to get stuffy in there a lot :)
2. It keeps the guards within earshot of whats going on
3. It would be a pita to have to right click the door each time I have to run in and out :)

Regarding the direction in which the doors swing, I think swinging out gives you more room in side, and makes it harder for someone to bash the door in should it ever be closed.


Some of these reasons will sound silly if you do not immerse yourself in the game's settings. If you play as if the game was real it will make more sense.

Thoss

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Re: Kada-El's Main Entrance
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2009, 12:28:01 am »
also seems common practice to have doors open outwards in public establishments in case of a panicked induced crowd surge trying to exit, like a fire... patrons would be trapped with the were bunched up along the doors. :o
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hulla

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Re: Kada-El's Main Entrance
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2009, 12:37:32 am »
Hello all
 

Me i want see my pet going out of this door (or coming inside )
 i see him one time and never can again
realy hard for him  :(

Mesmer

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Re: Kada-El's Main Entrance
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2009, 01:21:11 am »
@Rigwyn
1. That's what windows are for. Also, closed doors keep the warmth inside, with the fireplace and all. They also keep the bugs and dust outside. :)
2. Do you mean that the captain of the guards is charged with guarding a tavern? That's what bouncers are for.
3. It wouldn't be a pita or all in game doors would always be open. Anyway, the closed doors was an alternative, not the only suggestion.

Swinging out doesn't give more room inside, if the doors were opened to the extremes of the walls. Keeping the doors stuck outside and in the middle blocks what is apparently a wide entrance, not to mention the wind would likely slam the doors into each other producing an annoying noise each time. As for bashing the doors in, you could brace the doors from the inside (with chairs and tables) pretty quickly, so even if the lock is compromised, it won't be easy to do, unlike pulling on the doors. And if you're not around to brace the doors, then picking the lock, sawing through a bar, chopping the doors with an axe or just bashing it in won't stop someone determined from doing so. Besides, didn't you mention the guards outside?

EDIT: There is also something called a "lock-in" in some places that has a use for locked doors instead of relying on guards outside.

Quote
...a “lock-in” occurs when a violent, or potentially-violent patron is removed from the premises, and the doors are deadlocked to prevent the individual(s) from re-entering, and to prevent patrons inside from leaving for a short duration so as to prevent contact with aggressors (as a measure of duty of care). During the lock-in period, it is often a traditional courtesy of the venue to provide free drinks and snacks.

The game's setting and immersion don't change anything in this case. If they do, I'd like you to point out which part of the settings makes a difference here. In fact, because the game doesn't have the best collision detection, it is better that the entrance is wide without the doors stuck in the middle in a funny position. And this is based on playing the game, not real life.

@Thoss
Not at all. The doors can swing either way, depending on an establishment. If the doors swing outwards, the entrance is typically inside a niche or an arch of some sort, so that an open door doesn't block a walkway or a road outside the establishment. Otherwise, such doors usually stay closed, and return to a closed position after someone opens them to walk in. In case of fire, taverns aren't a bus or a train. Not to mention it would be easier for some perpetrators to trap the crowd inside by bracing the doors from the outside. There are also usually dedicated emergency exits, not to mention windows. Here are a few examples of taverns/pubs with the doors swinging inwards:

The Williams Arms, near Braunton, North Devon, England
The Eagle, City Road, Islington, London
The Eagle, Clerkenwell, London
etc.

There are also types of doors that can swing both, inwards and outwards.

Whatever way the doors swing, they should not be blocking the middle, if they were meant to be opened in a wide entrance. Even if the in-game verion was an entrance and an exit side by side, it still looks awkward.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 01:43:13 am by Mesmer »

Thoss

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Re: Kada-El's Main Entrance
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2009, 04:06:48 am »
hmm...perhaps it's a States thing...I can think of no public establishment where the doors open to the inside. Maybe some old historical building...I will be looking about out of curiosity.

which, if historically the doors opened to the inside...that would fit just fine with PS.
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Mordraugion

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Re: Kada-El's Main Entrance
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2009, 09:31:03 am »
Since we're based on a Medieval style period and the closest the US gets to that would be Wild West, I just think of all the Westerns with their 2 way swinging saloon doors, Mesmer is right most old UK Pubs have doors opening inwards, they are far easier to bar in its literal sense.
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Sarras Volcae

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Re: Kada-El's Main Entrance
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2009, 06:56:44 pm »
kittens, eggplants, saloons, and elf boobs
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 08:40:27 am by Sarras Volcae »

neko kyouran

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Sarras Volcae

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Re: Kada-El's Main Entrance
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2009, 08:44:27 pm »
*is dumbfounded*

kaerli2

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Re: Kada-El's Main Entrance
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2009, 03:28:27 am »
I'd figure that the Kada's doors could open either direction, but would have a vertical-bar latch mechanism for normal operation.  Such a mechanism would have the door's handle move a bar up and down that would engage in slots in the top and bottom jamb when the door was latched.  This has the advantage that the door latch mechanism is symmetrical between the two doors (which doesn't happen when you have doors that use an interlocked latch, where one door latches into the other door, which has a vertical-bar type of latch).


As for what Thoss is mentioning, having doors to the outside open outward is actually a fire code requirement for commercial/public buildings.  This is done for the reasons he mentions: in an emergency, an outward-opening door that uses a panic bar latch can be opened from the inside swiftly with a single motion (even if latched). However, panic bar latches are a rather modern invention, so that really does not apply to our case.

Imshi

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Re: Kada-El's Main Entrance
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2009, 05:25:54 am »
Easy entrace coupled with difficult egress is wonderful business sense for a concern built around atmosphere, and intent. Safety issues aside copious ale coupled with a voluble and reliable clientelle far out weigh any safety factors.

[Stuck all night in the Kada-El.
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Cant speak, cant spell
All's well.]
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Morla Phlint

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Re: Kada-El's Main Entrance
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2009, 12:10:34 pm »
1. I think the doors should open outside. Think about Kada's: the entrance is not in a niche or something and the door could easily be rammed into guests staying close. Or we should mark a "keep out!" area with paint of the floor :P
2. To click in order to enter is troublesome the way such doors work now. There are too many clicks and it implies loading the inside of the tavern as another map. And let's face it: ever wanted to watch a brawl/fight from the other side of the door? ;D Of course with the course of game development, we ought to get doors which can be easily opened and closed but that's future matters.  :whistling:

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Sarras Volcae

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« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 08:41:39 am by Sarras Volcae »

neko kyouran

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Re: Kada-El's Main Entrance
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2009, 04:00:32 pm »
I don't see how I'm wrong.  Are you implying that the picture isn't actually there and that it's simply a figment of your imagination?  Whether they used other means to enclose the place better or not, they still used swinging doors like that at some point in time.  The same line of thinking can be then brought to the tavern in game. Just because things aren't currently in game at the fullest development that is planned doesn't mean they don't exist to your characters.  If that were true, then most of the foundation of the settings and world would have to be thrown out simply because the art and game mechanics aren't there to support it.

You stated you've never heard of those swinging doors on old western saloons before because you inferred that they wouldn't be practical.  I showed you a picture of what they looked like and that they were indeed used.  Whether it makes sense in today's age to use them or not is irreverent.  At the time, that's what they did, and as far as I'm aware, you don't have a time machine to go back and change the course of history, so it looks like they will simply stay that way.  Alot of things that people have done in the olden days doesn't make sense from what we know today.  Doesn't change the fact that that is what they did.  :)