Guide to Fighting

[Duraza]

I was asked a few times to make a guide to the text fights a few players use on the RP server. After giving it some thought I figured it would be better if a guide was complied that spoke of a variety of options for fighting as well as some general things to always take into account. Just so everyone is clear, I'm not saying that what I mention here is the correct way to PvP or Text fight. It is just what I think sounds agreeable. Comments, etc are welcome for editing this and making it better.

Types of RP Fighting

There are three kinds of fighting as I see it in PS (though I'm sure that doesn't stop the creation of new kinds), PvP, Turn-based Text Fights, and Turn-based Dice roll fights. PvP is using the system given to us by the game mechanics to fight, the /challenge command. Turn-based Text fights are when players emote attacks, dodges, etc using the /me and /my command. Whether an attack hits or does not is simply decided by the player defending. Turn-based Dice roll fights are the same as Text fights only instead of players deciding how attacks go /roll <number> decides, the higher number being victor.

What's most important to me isn't that you conform to one way or the other. Find the method you enjoy and then play using it. In my own opinion it takes a certain skill to use any of these methods effectively and in a way that both yourself and your opponent enjoys it.

Basic Rules

There are a few things you should always take into account before the fight even happens. You want to do the current settings justice so that when you fight, it makes sense and the outcomes are sensible.

• Always make sure you have a reason for engaging in this fight in the first place. Maybe you were insulted, maybe you are seeking vengeance, maybe you are a gladiator giving entertainment. Make sure you have reasons that do justice to your character ICly. A normally tolerant person wouldn't suddenly go for the kill after being called a name.
• Make sure the nature of the fight fits the environment. Simple enough, drunken bar fights happen in bars, skilled duels in Arena's, battles/guild wars in areas like sewers, roads, etc.
• If you started the fight then yield to the defenders personal preference. Never have I seen this done before but it occurred to me that unless OOCly the player you plan to fight has agreed to it or its pre-planned there is no reason why the attacker should try to argue over whether you PvP, use dice, etc. If you attack someone for IC reasons in the spur of the moment then let the defending player decide how they wish to be attacked.
• Never rely on the in-game evaluation you see at the end of a characters description window as the deciding factor for how you will RP in the fight. Just because it says you are more powerful than the other character is not reason to feel that your every attack must be successful and theirs must fail. These evaluations can be inaccurate so it is better to just ask someone OOCly for their stats if you both agree that stats should help decide.
• If a player wishes to run away from the situation do not stop them from such. In the first one or two turns that should be a completely allowed move without consequence. After getting deeper into the fight there should be a chance that your player cannot escape, determined by both the attacker and attacked.(Explained further below)
• Remember the consequences of your actions. Getting into a fight leads to the chance of IC injury or death. If you do it openly in a city then remember that the guard can and -will- arrest you. My advice is know the laws of Yliakum before even involving yourself with those kinds of things. You don't have to know them ICly but know them OOCly so that you've got a clear understanding of the consequences for whatever you do.

Player Versus Player Fighting

The player versus player mechanic allows players to duel, using weapons, armor, etc they have actually acquired through game play. Your character levels and statistics, in combination with game mechanics decide how hard you hit, etc through the fight.

What I find most important about PvP is the setup. Engaging in a PvP fight is not simply typing /challenge and starting. Firstly, like all fights you've got to obey those basic rules. Next, it is important to setup the fight well. Setup would be the talking/emotes before the battle occurs. I'm not talking about just the provocation before the fight. In my opinion it is great when a player goes through everything before we get to the point where blades clash.

Example: Bad Setup

*Setting: sewers*
Playerone walks up to playertwo, smirking, two blades strapped to his side.
Playertwo: Ah thief! Don't hurt me!
Playerone: /challenge

Example: Good Setup

*Setting: Sewers*
Playerone walks up to playertwo, smirking, two blades strapped to his side.
Playertwo: Ah thief! Don't hurt me!
Playerone draws his blades from their sheaths. He runs at playertwo, ready to attack him furiously, blades coming up for the first strike.
Playerone: /challenge

Doesn't seem very different to you? Well, take the depth you can really put into the battle if you want and look at this instead.

Example: Best Setup

Playerone walks up to playertwo, smirking, two blades strapped to his side.
Playertwo: Ah thief! Don't hurt me!
Playerone spits at the ground, rolling his eyes as he glances down at playertwo, "Pathetic." He goes to   draw his swords, circling around his enemy.
Playertwo stands awestruck, fearing what is to come.
Playerone gives playertwo a glare, tightening the grip on his swords as takes a deep breath of air.
Playertwo's fear causes him to stumble, tripping and falling backwards, hitting the wall.
Playerone takes his opportunity to run charge playertwo, exhaling a breath before running toward him, blades ready to swing and cut cleave flesh at any moment.
Playerone: /challenge

I don't know about you but I much rather be in the last situation presented. It gives such a more interesting setup, makes Playertwo a bit more involved than just some person I decided to kill, and over all just looks better Rp-wise. Honestly, the bare minimum in my opinion is to go with the good example. Try to avoid the 'bad' example just because it provides little RP. You could easily do the bad example over and give it more quality in those few lines too. There's no need to over-setup a situation with lines and lines of text before you actually fight.

Text Fighting

Text fighting is done in numerous ways, by numerous people. The basic concept is that every attack is typed out through emote, following by a dodge/resist/hit emote by the attacked. Then the attacked has his/her turn to attack, etc. To text fight in an acceptable manner you have to keep a few things in mind, mainly the settings, your attack emotes, and godmodding.

Settings

One of the things some players like about text fights is it allows them to tell the story of the battle right as you fight. The other thing many like is it allows one to do things that game mechanics does not support, or will not support. Whether that is good or bad I won't say but, so long as people will do it there should be a rule for it. I think its important that what you use, while possibly not in the game's current mechanics or never planned to be, must make sense within the games settings. This doesn't just go for those who use crazy spells. It is just as easy to go overboard in the class of melee/weapons and such.

When it comes to spellcasting the distinction of what is and isn't in the settings usually comes easy. In my opinion spells you create should either be inspired from spells that already exist or will exist. If not, they should be things that fit reasonably in the settings. For example, you've got glyphs that send balls of fire at players. You've got blue way that has to do with ice and such. Would it be easy to perceive that a player could have a glyph that sends a ball of ice at the opponent? Yes, probably without stretching the imagination too much. Now, would it be a good idea to have an insta-killing glyph? Not really, it can fit in the settings but it is a bit of a stretch and much too powerful for a player to force that fate on other players. It would still be possible to pull off and have fun for all, just not the best choice. Would it be a good idea to have a glyph that summoned the god Hecate from the realm of chaos? Totally out of settings to a point that it makes no sense.

Weapons aren't much different. Things like longswords, axes, etc are obviously in the game. What about things like spears? Still an understandable weapon for the games setting. Halbard? Maybe. Katana? You are pushing it and if a player wants to argue with you they are totally in their rights, though it is still imaginable. Machine gun? I don't think so. Thats where you know you've gone over the top.

Emotes

There are probably any number of different ways to emote a sword attack with the same type of sword, the same number of ways to emote a spell if everyone is using the same one. Length is up to the player, some love reading paragraphs that could just be for one attack, others prefer one or two short sentences, etc. Try to find a happy medium with whoever you are fighting against. What is important is you get the level of description you want in the emote and you give justice to the length of time it might take you to do things.

The first thing is to give your emote the level of description you want it to have. The reason it is important is because many times another play may not interpret your attack the way you thought it need be interpreted and my not ask you OOCly with questions. Avoid that kind of thing by clearly explaining the attack, where the attack is aimed, and if you must (I suggest OOCly or within the emote) what the attack is meant to do if that may not be obvious.

Bad Emote Example

Playerone slashes at playertwo with his sword.

Good Emote Example

Playerone makes a horizontal slash at playertwo's right hand, attempting to disarm him.

That good example was specific and for those who do not like extremely long attacks it did a fine job of doing what you need. If you want to be a little longer for the sake of being more descriptive you are welcome to it, just don't spend all your time trying to describe how painful your attack will be if it hits. Don't always say where the attack will land if it hits. You are in a battle. If your character has the time to think out every blow I predict they will be moving at a bit of a slower pace, unless you ICly pause sometimes. If you want exact attacks every time than be willing to take the time.

When emoting you need to consider the time it takes to make the movements you wish to make. Honestly, if you want you can bunch it all up in one long paragraph for your turn but I as a player will then have the right to counter attack between attacks. Spell casters should take that into account too. Not every spell you have will cast instantly. Some of them you may want to RP to take several turns to completely cast. For example I can do this:

Playerone fires a couple of crystal way arrows at Playertwo before drawing his swords and going to slice with both blades at his chest him.

Is it a bad emote? No. It is perfectly fine. However I have to be prepared for something like this:

Playertwo hit slightly in the side by one of the arrows, rolling on the ground while the rest whizz overhead, moving his sword to go for Playerone's legs before Playerone can get to him.

Or something completely different. The attacked still has the power to avoid multiple attacks because the time it will take for you to make all these motions will still be in effect. On the opposite side of things, just because someone emotes multiple attacks in one turn wouldn't mean that you should get angry at them. Roll with the punches if you will, you see what they are doing, now insert your reaction within, outside of, whatever.

When it comes to spells, the same rules apply. For casting longer spells sometimes its nice not to put everything in one long emote but instead to take the time to emote out separate parts of the spell-casting process. Regardless of which you choose a player can still stick their emote in when they wish.

Godmodding

God-modeling, also known as being over-powered (OP), is no doubt the thing you must me most cautious about in a Text Fight. The easiest way to deal with it is to consider that your character is no more powerful than your opponent allows them to be. This doesn't mean your opponent can decide to be stronger than your character because guess what, they have to take the same rule into account. There is no easy way to describe how to avoid godmodding, but some classic signs of godmodding are easy to spot:

• Dodging every attack your opponent throws at you or taking a majority of the attacks and being 'barely' effected. Never dodge everything unless there was some OOC agreement on both sides. Same for being barely effected. Unless you've got reasons that have been agreed on with both parties take attacks and be hurt.
• Despite being in poor condition or heavily wounded you are able to continue fighting. I don't care if you have max Endurance and Will, you are not going to continue to fight when your every emote includes the massive amount of blood dripping on the ground from your body. At least, you aren't going to fight at the same speed and power as before.
• Despite being outnumbered you OOCly think you can still win. This is another one of the times when I think stats don't matter as much. If you've got to take down 3 people who have never even touched swords its different. But if they all are even a bit skilled then you can put up a fight but expect to lose and don't waste your time dragging the fight on to the point that it is unrealistic.
• Don't add things like *a movement so fast that it is a blur to your eyes* in your emote. You are saying that you moved so fast that your opponent couldn't see you. Thats not fair seeing as you should let your opponent decide that.
• Never think that everything you do doesn't have a negative effect. Every time you swing that blade realize your character is getting a bit more tired. Every time you cast a spell you lose a little more magic. If you want that spell or that attack to be more powerful than ordinary, make sure you are prepared to lose more than ordinary as well.
• Your opponent is always the one to decide the final outcome of your attack. Just because you say you aimed for the chest, doesn't mean your opponent couldn't emote the attack landing elsewhere, possibly because their character tried to move out of the way. The same goes for you deciding the effects of his/her attacks.
  

Dice Fighting

Dice fighting is the same as Text Fighting with one fundamental difference. To remove a lot of the godmodding that happens you /roll a dice. Whoever has the higher roll wins the ability to decide the outcome of the attack. For example if this happens:

Playerone goes and attacks player two with his daggers.
Playerone: /roll
Playertwo: /roll
Playerone rolls for 5.
Playertwo rolls for 6.

Playertwo, because he/she was able to roll a higher number can now emote blocking, deflecting, etc.

Playertwo leaps to the side, avoiding the attack.

Then another attack would come up, this time with playertwo as the attacker. Often, players do different things to make dice roll fights rely less on luck. Sometimes they add modifiers to the dice, like after becoming tired instead of /roll 50 you can only /roll 25. Sometimes they roll stats. Example is if I attack and you defend I /roll my strength level against your agility. Dice can make things very fair, very complex, or sometimes just too heavily related to luck, depending on your preference. Just make sure you decide on a dice system to follow in the beginning of the fight and stick to it. Keep in mind the basics and all thats been mentioned for Text Fighting and you should be fine.

Running Away

Trying to run away from a fight is a difficult place for one to make a rule. The reason why is, to the runner it is only fair that they have the chance to avoid danger if it is unwelcome, both IC and OOC. To the attacker, it isn't fair when everyone just runs away and doesn't give them a chance. Players need to firstly keep in mind that they might be making it harder for fellow players to enjoy the game in their own way. Attackers might make it hard for players who don't like conflict RP. Runners may make it hard for those who do like conflict RP.

For those who want to run, keep the following in mind:

• Don't bother going into areas like the sewers, the Howling well, the banished camp, etc without expecting the chance for being attacked. As soon as you step into an unlawful area realize that there are players who like to carry out unlawful RP and may be there, seeking some.
• Unless it is for OOC reasons give those who wish to attack a chance. ICly your character may run, yes. ICly those attackers can follow you, chase you, try to attack you from long range. Unless you feel discomforted with the RP OOCly then do realize that these players are trying to have fun too.

For attackers I suggest doing one of the two listed here:

• Adopt a warning system of some sort. OOCly inform a player that they have stepped or may be stepping into a dangerous RP. Explain to them that you are just after fun if you feel it need be. Give them the chance to walk away from the situation before it starts. Obviously if a player steps into an unlawful area as mentioned above they lose privilege to this warning. If they complain OOCly let them go but let them know that they took the step into an area where it only makes sense that they are attacked.
• If a player specifically requests OOCly to not be involved with an attack or something of the sort, you leave them be. If resistance is purely IC than you continue, so long as your attempts are reasonable. To make the player willing to this sort of RP in the future try and make it as fun for them as it may be for you. Make the RP experience interesting, not just you and a bunch of your friends killing for kicks.

Dealing With Disputes

Sometimes you will find yourself in a position where you and the person you are fighting with don't agree. Regardless of whether you are PvPing or using some kind of Text fighting Disputes can happen. Keep these ideas in mind to avoid and help solve disputes.

Grouping to have a channel for OOC chat before the fight always helps to keep the fight rolling on smoothly. You keep OOC out of the main channel and it helps keep the atmosphere, especially for those who might be onlookers.

When in PvP a common thing to do after the challenge has been accepted is to have both the challenger and the challenged jump. The jump is OOC, just to make sure that both players have a fair start at the same time. Obviously it doesn't matter as much for things like sneak attacks or assaulting someone but for an actual duel it is helpful. You wouldn't want to be scrambling to write a last minute emote while you are being attacked.

One thing about dice that is useful is the ability to use them when you Text fight someone you've never met or aren't exactly comfortable with. Everyone has a different way of playing and because of that what some people do may come off as Godmodding to others yet be acceptable to some. There really isn't a single way to Text Fight that everyone can agree on. If you ever find yourself in need of a way to keep things fair using dice is your best bet.

Often regular text fights end in a lot of OOC argument, one or both of the players accusing the other of godmodding. If there is truly a problem between the players in question then just step away from the situation and cancel the RP. If you feel it is just a misunderstanding but you rather avoid more than take a look at one of the other styles of fighting. Maybe /roll for the final outcome or PvP for the winner. It is better to find some way to end it rather than go on arguing. If you realize the other player will be upset for whatever reason at their character losing sometimes its better to take the loss or offer up just canceling the fight altogether.

Additional Information

For additional information and added opinions I would try looking here. You'll find additional information to this topic, written by Aiwendil, that may help you understand Fighting in general better, as well as give you an idea as to your preferred way to fight.

[kiou]

seems really solid, and really quite necessary. Although what confuses me the most is "true death"
what constitutes a true death?

i think the defender has to agree, and the conflict has to be extremely serious.
Im not sure though/...

* kiou likes this post

thanks

[Duraza]

what constitutes a true death?

True death, permanent death, whatever you call it is when a character doesn't revive in Death Realm to come back to Yliakum again. I'm no expert on it but mainly, if you were to run around as a player who could cause true death it would be over-powered, simply because you are taking away that character's chance to come back. Too much power for players to wield. Can it still be done? It is in the settings so I can't really go around telling people they can't. However, if you must be over-powered give yourself an 'over-weakness' or a few over-weaknesses is what I'm trying to advise.

[Aiwendil]

Thanks for this work Duraza. But I hope you allow me to comment a few things where I don't completely agree with you. I can't say anything about dueling with game mechanics as I try to avoid is as often a possible.

If a player wishes to run away from the situation do not stop them from such. In the first one or two turns that should be a completely allowed move without consequence. After getting deeper into the fight there should be a chance that your player cannot escape, determined by both the attacker and attacked.

I guess I only get this wrong, but I think running away should always have consequence. I see nothing wrong with the attacker trying to follow the escaper or throwing something after him. But I think you only meant that there should be the chance for the defender to flee, and with this I agree of course.

Playerone fires a couple of crystal way arrows at Playertwo before drawing his swords and going to slice with both blades at his chest him.

Is it a bad emote? No. It is perfectly fine. However I have to be prepared for something like this:

Playertwo hit slightly in the side by one of the arrows, rolling on the ground while the rest whizz overhead, moving his sword to go for Playerone's legs before Playerone can get to him.

Or something completely different. The attacked still has the power to avoid multiple attacks because the time it will take for you to make all these motions will still be in effect. On the opposite side of things, just because someone emotes multiple attacks in one turn wouldn't mean that you should get angry at them. Roll with the punches if you will, you see what they are doing, now insert your reaction within, outside of, whatever.

Sorry, but I think it isn't a good idea to but more than one move in a emote at all. One move at a time then giving the opponent the possibility to react sounds much better for me. Such long emotes tend to build up between the players, resulting only in both players just reacting to the starts of the attack of the other and then dodging all remaining actions of that line. Such things are great for the normal RP but in fights I think people should stick with one action per emote.

I would add to the godmodding paragraph that it's always your opponent who decides the effect of your attack.

Adding a hint that a OOC group during a fight to discuss disputes wouldn't hurt too. I like it far better to keep those things out of main to not destroy the atmosphere.

[just for those who are interested, here are my thoughts on this topic]

[kaerli2]

One quick point:

Don't rely on ingame evaluations (the "You evaluate that..." text that is put at the end of the description window text by the game).  They are often inaccurate for two reasons:
1) They weight all stats equally (someone with 200CHA and 10 in all other stats would be ranked the same as someone with 200 in STR and 10 in all other stats)
2) They don't take weapons/armor/magic skills into account.  Take two characters with 150 in all stats, but one has 10 Sword and the other 100 Sword.  They will evaluate as peers; however, the second one is clearly the stronger in actuality.

In other words, it's best to ask someone OOCly about whatever stats or skills you need to know in order to judge their strength as opposed to trying to guesstimate it based on the ingame evaluation alone.

[Vannaka]

The easiest way to deal with it is to consider that your character is no more powerful than your opponent allows them to be.

Just for the sake of discussion, how does this apply to characters who are obviously nowhere near equals in stats and combat skills?  Would you consider it godmodding for someone with level 100 in heavy armor to block or take almost no damage from the majority of an enemy attacks?  Would you consider it godmodding for a light armor user with maxed agility to dodge nearly all attacks from someone without a high skill level in their chosen weapon?  If an opponent with level 10 swords complains about excessive blocking from a character with level 100 heavy armor and shield skills, are their complaints warranted, as suggested by the above quote?

[Skrein]

The easiest way to deal with it is to consider that your character is no more powerful than your opponent allows them to be.

Just for the sake of discussion, how does this apply to characters who are obviously nowhere near equals in stats and combat skills?  Would you consider it godmodding for someone with level 100 in heavy armor to block or take almost no damage from the majority of an enemy attacks?  Would you consider it godmodding for a light armor user with maxed agility to dodge nearly all attacks from someone without a high skill level in their chosen weapon?  If an opponent with level 10 swords complains about excessive blocking from a character with level 100 heavy armor and shield skills, are their complaints warranted, as suggested by the above quote?

There's no guide to this because it's different depending on the people fighting. This is something for the two to discuss pre-battle. I personally like a system where people roll out of the number of the strength or agility (whichever is higher) for each attack, and roll just once out of the number of their endurance for their total HP.

[Duraza]

To Kaerli2 and Aiwendil: Those suggestions you made to be added in will be.

I guess I only get this wrong, but I think running away should always have consequence. I see nothing wrong with the attacker trying to follow the escaper or throwing something after him. But I think you only meant that there should be the chance for the defender to flee, and with this I agree of course.

I agree completely. If a player decides to run that doesn't mean that they can't be followed, etc. I suppose, I wrote that because I was thinking of OOC reasons to leave. In the end the greatest problem you have will be those few players who don't want to be attacked OOCly. They care too much about their characters, are unwilling to alter the story, or sometimes they think the place they are being attacked in is inappropriate. Then the question comes, who am I to interrupt this characters way of enjoyment? In all IC rights you've got every right to attack whoever you want, especially when they wander into unlawful areas. Out of character you've got to remind yourself as a player that to work better as a community you've got to respect each other's wishes.

I don't like the idea of making it so that a player can just walk out of a bad situation though. Your right about that, it isn't even fair to the player with IC malicious intent. What I propose, to be added to this guide is one of the following:

• Either a type of 'warning' system that could be used (I've stolen the idea from another group). If you feel that your character might attack another player or try to inflict physical harm in the next 1-2 turns then the idea is that you let them know OOCly, tick my character off again and bad things will happen. Any player losses their right to notification when stepping into 'dangerous' areas (Burial Wells, Sewers, Roads, etc).
• If a player specifically requests OOCly to not be involved with an attack or something of the sort, you leave them be. If resistance is purely IC than you continue, so long as your attempts are reasonable.

The second is most likely already done but I thought the first might be good for those who choose to attack and fight in less wise areas (i.e. guarded), so long as they plan to let themselves deal with consequences.

Sorry, but I think it isn't a good idea to but more than one move in a emote at all. One move at a time then giving the opponent the possibility to react sounds much better for me.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of making multiple attacks within my single turn as well, especially because I'm such a fan of being realistic with how fast you can -cast- magic. I hate it when someone casts multiple spells in one turn. The problem is this is my (as well as yours I'm guessing) personal preference to a battle. Other players, as I've seen, enjoy fighting with multiple strings of attacks in one emote.

What it comes down to is me not having the power to tell others how to emote and how to enjoy the game. Thats why I wrote that section as I did, to try and let those who do use multiple strings of attacks know those attacks should and will be treated the same as if they were separate turns. Putting it all in one emote doesn't somehow make your movements any faster than someone who emoted them separately.

To Vannaka, my thoughts are with Skrein exactly. I'm sorry to say it for those players who do level their characters but in all honesty, if you plan to go into an RP fight those terms such as levels have to be decided on a case to case basis with those you plan to fight against. It sounds extremely unfair but there isn't a way I can give a rule that fairly governs this for all situations. There are players in PS who IMO have no right to RP the stats they have. Why? Because they will end up being jerks and use those stats for their own entertainment, not the entertainment of all involved. If you are an exception then forgive me, I mean no offense. However there is no way I could make a rule about it and feel it should stick in every case.

[Duraza]

The guide has been modified a bit to add some of the things that were mentioned. I added a a section on Running Away. Kaerli's suggestion was added to the basic rules and the link Aiwendil posted was added to the topic under 'Additional Information.'

[Allive]

lol eciddt come back and have a look over some stuff see whats going on and stumbled into this guide there i another things tha you have never mentioned durazza although im not sure f you want it in your guide or not and its something that i know both you and me just accepted.

if you are playing the text bassed way as durazza described its very plausabl that the players actualy hav a hugh background fr there haracters and perhaps even things not supported by the game mechanics. Such as durazza being a dark lord of such even to the effect he had magic that was not of this world the fact is i know durazza never had the skill to beat Alliva in a pvp duel in any shape or form. however it dose not stop his character being a powerfull rp duelist.

example some that are reading this guide might and probably wont know who alliva is and hey you know nt played a while but back thn allva was one of the best if not the best pvp duelst in the game and was known as such howeve durraza wasnt. durazza was known as a powerfull charcter rp wise this should have made things diffucualt but we decided to put tha asside and play on our character backgrounds and gradual got strongerect. we to durazzas rep at rp battling and allivas rep f pvp dueling and went on those bassis and it worked out well.

the point is i dont think you highlighted things like this durazza in perhaps ways of getting aund problems like this.