The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)

[novacadian]

Because there is no hard definition of what a "roleplay" game is.

Having played live rpg with a number of Game Masters, it is clear that the style of even a game that shares common rules can vary greatly from one Game Master to another. For example my game is played strictly by the dice and PCs die. Other Game Masters will travel to the moon and back before bringing death to a PC. Each has their opinion and it is up to the player to decide under which style they wish to play.

So it is with such a game as PlaneShift. With software development it is wise to keep a sharp ear open to the players' likes and dislikes; yet in the end (in this case) it is the devs that are our Game Masters.

From my new perspective here it seems that PlaneShift offers a wide range of styles to the players. Just taking combat as an example, one could go the PvP route, use /roll or simply craft it in a storyline approach. All three have been experience by my character.

If a player is trying to role play a character; be that tavern talk, map wide adventures or even a simple thing like my character going to her knees after each kill in the sewer to send an offering to the Goddess; then the players are role playing. Perhaps if we were less to judge how others choose to do their role playing and concentrate on our own, then things may move more smoothly towards developments which are pleasing to all.... or at least except-able.

Every action can tell one more about ones character. Every increase in their stats through game mechanics can change them for you. Every tale heard in a tavern can increase their world perspective. Every bemoaning from the side lines can take the wind out of those sails.

If PlaneShift does not appeal to a player then my advise would be to seek another Game Master(s) which is more satisfactory to their taste.

It is only through hands on involvement that compromise can be made. One on the side lines bemoaning gets no vote on the play. It would be like someone phoning my house on game night to bemoan the harshness of my dice. It would not be the place nor the time and the phone would likely be off the hook.

Is role play on its death throes here? Some may think so it seems; yet others like myself would disagree. Let's wait till out of Beta, at least, to make that call.
 
- Nova

[Sarva]

Why people keep blaming the staff for not making this an RP game escapes me, because the staff tries very hard to do so.

Because there is no hard definition of what a "roleplay" game is. It means different things to different people. Consider the arguments over short-form and long-form RP. Some do not consider just emoting during a conversation RP. To others, long-form RP is getting to close to scripting things that should be expository. To others, the system should have more RP mechanics and less of a reliance on player-generated RP. To others, player-generated RP should be the focus, and mechanics should be removed in favor of a system that lets anyone play any type of character they want to from the get go. Those are just a couple of the interpretations.

But since you took the time to post a nice composition, perhaps you would detail to us why you left the game?

Verden you just pointed out something very important. RP is going to be different things to different people. I think one of the major problems in the endless debates on this forum is to many people don't realize this simple fact. To many people feel that only their form of RP is the correct form and everyone else needs to fall in line with their version of RP. The sad part is the lack of tolerance to many people seem to have to different styles of RP. We have all sorts of different views on what is RP in this community. Personally I think that is a good thing since it exposes one to many different styles and approaches. In the end I think by being exposed to and trying many different styles of RP it makes me a stronger RP'er in the end. There are types of RP that I have though were silly. Sometimes though I try them and I'm surprised how much fun I've had.

JUst like any game different people will have different ways of of enjoying the game.  If people would be a little more tolerant I think the whole community would be better off. There is no correct single way to RP no matter what some people may say in these discussions. Trying to come up with a bunch of restrictive rules designed to enforces a single style of RP  will do nothing in the long run but drive away all those who dislike that style or RP and leave us with a smaller number of people who like that style of RP.  There is no rule that forces you to RP with someone who has a style of RP you don't agree with or dislike. You can just act like that person isn't there { I'm sure many people have done that in RL to people they  dislike so why should the game be any different}. If things get really bad there is always the /ignore option.   Of course if tolerance just isn't in you then maybe  finding a new community that agrees with your views would bring you more happiness than spending a lot of time trying to convince everyone here that your way of RP is the best ( or only) way.

[Illysia]

Seems to me like in game it's less people not adapting to other styles, and more people not RPing outside of their clique. However, Roled's RPs seem to be helping with that. Considering how many of the usual flame warriors aren't even playing the game any more, just "ignoring players in game" won't change much. True there is a need for style tolerance, but verden is right. There is a distinct need from the team to come up with some clear and firm definitions.  It's like dragons. If the settings team sorta waffled on it, you'd be seeing a whole lot more of them, but since it has been said "no dragons", that stands.

If the team is tired of the battles, they will eventually have to step on some toes and put their foot down. Somebody is going to walk away with hurt feelings but oh well. You can't make everybody happy but you can have a large body of malcontents. They just have to pick which is more agreeable, a large body of malcontents or a specific group of happy people. Not saying which they would choose but that is what it comes down to. You can't have a complete democracy on things involving the internet as there are waay too many opposing opinions. Being a centrist will give you a heart attack if you try to fight every battle, so you have picks your issues carefully, then act decisively.

[Rigwyn]

The PS team prefers to straddle the fence no matter how much it hurts.
We asked for improvement on the rp rules over and over again but got nowhere.
When the last player leaves perhaps they will reconsider.

[Illysia]

PS will never be completely playerless but it can still have a much larger playerbase than it has now even though it's a niche game.

[mickra]

As for where to set the bar, I would suggest enforcing the following very simple rules for rp. I would say educate offenders the first time, warn and progressively ban anyone who falls below the bar. This is not being an elitist, rather is just setting a very basic standard that anyone with half a brain can follow.

1. No metagaming
2. Characters must be setting compliant. Characters should be reviewed and approved before they can be played.
3. Player must stay in character at all times. period.
4. Guards/Npcs must be respected. ( Guards should automatically kill anyone who is cloaked or enters the city with weapons drawn )
 * weapons should sheathe automatically when entering a town or when one respawns
5. IC and OOC must remain separate. period.
6. Guilds must be approved by gm or settings team and must serve a valid ic purpose. There should be no "jarad'z homiez" guilds on the rp server.

When rules like this are NOT enforced they are nothing more than text art.

I think we absolutely need this.

My petty disagreements (oops, I'm going to disagree with Rigwyn! i'll think about that tomorrow...) follow.

1. No metagaming. Also: no godmoding, no marysueing. Descriptions moderation/approval would be a good place to start. Clear the mess without straining some poor chaps' brains too much. Maybe if they are said (atm, they are not!) their female cannot be 'beautiful' or their warrior 'powerful' or their mage 'intimidating' just because they think so, it will prevent a lot of in-game griefing from happening later. Every bad character description which exists in-game means spoiling one more noob's chance to start RPing. The process itself is actually very simple and frustrating: noobs start with being godmoded -> continue with godmoding others -> GRIEF.

2. Not 'before' they can be played, but during a set period of time after they started being played. One or two weeks should be enough to find a GM online and to ask for that magic stamp on your IC profile... unless it's another pile of godmoding/marysueing dung.

6. Bad (non-RP) guilds must be either forcefully transferred to EZPC or just deleted from an RP-server, along with every member character they hold. Send them a warning, give them a month or two to mend their ways, abolish them if they don't care. Also, any serious violation of RP rules committed by anyone higher than 'on probation' in rank must affect the guild's RP reputation; negative numbers would mean deletion/transfer as well. (That much about mass recruiting.)

(x) When rules like this are not enforced they are more than 'text art'. They mean putting honest people (from reasonable noobs eager to learn and all the way up to most skilled RPers) on mercy of every next jerk that just happened to register, or keeps playing (and griefing people by spoiling as much RP in a day as that person can) for years. Yeah, we have those as well, and one of them is worse than an army of 5yo.

RP works very much like a chain: the quality of every piece done is bound to and defined by the weakest participant's skill. Kids and noobs must be tolerated and taught, idiots must not be tolerated and cannot be taught. Right now, about every 2 out of 3 RPs done on Skylab get spoiled or downright ruined by another idiot. That is why people are, and will keep, leaving.

In general, the thou shalt not enforce rules on thy fellow player rule is what PS lacks most of all. Players are supposed (and left) to do what GMs should do. No wonder people quarrel too much, then either leave or start ignoring anyone they don't know as a good RP partner already. I don't know if it's something one must be ashamed of or not, but I already started doing the same, and no matter how much forum 'let's all be friends' threads there are, I will keep doing that... until the game as much as makes the effort of being fair.
At the moment, it isn't.

Edited because of speaking tyop.

[Rigwyn]

Yep... no disagreement here. The idea of having a probation period might be better.

[verden]

Back to square one. And around and around we go.

[Xoel]

The PS team prefers to straddle the fence no matter how much it hurts.
We asked for improvement on the rp rules over and over again but got nowhere.
When the last player leaves perhaps they will reconsider.

You think too much of the PS team as one agreeing, one-minded entity. They debated this stuff for weeks, and one side pushed one way and the non-RPer side of the team pushed the other... in the end they had to compromise internally.

[Illysia]

They debated this stuff for weeks, and one side pushed one way and the non-RPer side of the team pushed the other... in the end they had to compromise internally.

To the trolls, please don't flame this one up to badly...

[Xoel]

"no marysueing"

Sadly, in trying to avoid being a mary-sue, one often becomes predictably opposite.

[Rigwyn]

Well, the compromise is a bad thing. They should make rules that support ROLE PLAYING  for the ROLE PLAYING SERVER

 

and rules that support LEVELING for the LEVELING SERVER...

Perhaps the role playing server should be called the "General Purpose" server instead? 
This way people don't expect so much.

Its a damn shame, the game is so much like those old single player RPGs where you got your fun out of leveling and beating the next boss. Planeshift could be much better than that.

[novacadian]

Well, the compromise is a bad thing. They should make rules that support ROLE PLAYING  for the ROLE PLAYING SERVER

My feelings are the same. Granted my newness does not give that opinion much weight perhaps, yet so far Tavern talks have been great, game mechanic offerings quite robust and romantic outings delightful... yet when it comes down to resolving conflict between characters it has been a quagmire.

This is not to say that all styles of RP conflict (storyline, use of /roll and PvP) cannot be in the offing; yet there should be some way to make it clear which style is to be employed before embarking in the RP. Perhaps something like Trade mechanic; which both could agree to the style of combat. It would then be clearly understood by all; even those not directly involved so they can decide their input to the RP.   

With everyone trying to be their own GM (meant as Dungeon/Game Master not the title used on PS) it is very difficult to resolve physical disputes, from my experience so far, without some clear guidelines to draw from. Perhaps those who agree to a conflict style (and others welcome to join in at any time) could then be locked in a turn sequence with each taking an action like in live rpg. This could allow modifiers to allow more actions to those with more agility and less armoured for example too.

Just some thoughts about an area that seems to need some massaging.

- Nova

[Sarras Volcae]

that actually sounds really cool, nova. especially if it were like pokemon!  (i'm being serious)

[novacadian]

that actually sounds really cool, nova. especially if it were like pokemon!  (i'm being serious)

Pokemon rings a bell as something my daughter may have been familiar. Yet your example flew past me.

It may be that my analysis overlooked the fourth most favoured form of PS combat... the sharp tongues of the forum threads.

- Nova