Author Topic: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)  (Read 38220 times)

Wavan Levironk

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So first... forgive my english, after 2 years playing, I believe it's still not good enough  :-\

And second... I mention the words "developer" and "veteran player" here, I don't mean all the devs or all the players, it's up to you, being objective, to believe if it is your case.



Now, what you were expecting to read:

I have read many complains about the newcomers, and how they ruin the game. I have seen the same replies and opinions over and over again. As if one of the newcomers will join the forums and say "hey, it's my case, I will stop being a noob and become a pro roleplayer".

I would really like to know... who do you address those complains? to the developers, the GMs, the newcomers who won't read this post? Developers make the game, not the players that play it, and GMs aren't always present!

So, instead of writing a post to those ones who will never read the forums, I post it to the ones who actually read and complain in it and what you can (and should) change to make roleplay better. There we go:

Part one: Veteran Roleplayers and elitism.

1. Change your mind: Change your mind, your thoughts. I have heard "The good roleplayers are gone", but never "The good roleplayers are growing". I don't mean literally growing, I mean that they are being trained, they are learning to roleplay, they are on the way. The past, as the word says, it's just the past, it's not the present and it's gone, stop saying "those good days" and start saying "These good days".

2. You are not the best: You may have been playing for 5 years, congratulations, honestly, but that doesn't make you -by far- the best. You have maxed all the stats, swords, daggers, light, medium and heavy armor, red way and crystal way, and melee is on the way. Then what happens? You make a stupid mistake or have an argument with another player and you have one of those veterans behind you, saying they are better than anyone else. My message will always be the same: Do you really believe you are that important?

3. Stop making no-sense: Some of the players I mentioned above, say that since you can fight and powerlevel, roleplay is dead. Pardon? erase your character and start again with low stats and low skills then, and never say you're the best again  8) .

4. Don't expect to be asked for help: You are the god of roleplaying, and as a god of roleplaying you are, you are always willing to help. But if you think people will come to you asking for help and suggestions, you are saying there is no shy people. You are wrong, I'm one of those who will never ask you, sorry, I am that way, and so are many players here. If you see someone not roleplaying, or saying stupid things in main, send him a tell in a friendly way, and give him the chance to join a roleplaying group. I know that won't always work and that there are some trolls out there, like anywhere else.

5. Make more open events: I logged in with my character for an hour, I didn't find any events or anyone roleplaying, just two people talking about their issues (that's roleplaying, but there was no way I could join). In an hour, a newcomer meets the game mechanics and the atmosphere of the game, if there are no roleplays, he won't roleplay, it is that simple.

6. You make stupid mistakes: Again, I saw a character who has been around for years, and in its description it said "His eyes make you feel respect". Why would I respect someone I don't know? I respect them as I respect any person I don't know, right?

7. Be realistic: You have been into a lot roleplay events, now in your description it says your eyes change its color, you are full of scars, your body is strong, you have -no one knows  how many- medals, it says you're a master mage in your leather torso armor you are not even wearing. Now you make another character, it's a beautiful fenki who moves her tail and makes your character feel lost in a world of feelings. You know I am a blue eyed, blond guy, with the highest IQ you will ever see and I have everyone admiring me because I have Arnold Schwarzenegger's genetics and the perfect abs, but I am also tall and perfect, and I am the best kisser? Is it your real life that way? Then don't expect your character to be!

8. Your character is not you: And not because he has to think in a different way. The same people are 24/7 on IRC and in game. They play for hours. The feeling of being in an elite is great, I know, and because your life is not the way you expect, you feel more powerful because you have a powerful character, I understand you, but it leads you to the second point I wrote. I know how it feels having no friends (or not going out often) and being fat (wishing your body was better) so you go and develop a Wavan Levironk, you max his stats and some skills and random players tell you they have heard about you and that you are a good guild leader. I have been there. And then, you behave like a complete jerk, and you live for playing because you have nothing else to do. Completely wrong. Go jogging, join a gym, no matter what, do some exercise, get to meet people (I know it's not as easy as it sounds), join a martial art, have a hobby... no matter what, but forget about PlaneShift for a while... surprise, your life got so much better and you're not a jerk anymore :).

NOTE: I'm not saying everyone is that way. This only applies to people who, like me, have been through that. Please, if you don't know how it is or feels, don't critize about it, and if you feel that way, my suggestion is not to admit it but to do something about it (and if you want, send me a PM). People playing games like WoW or RS for hours are ruining their lifes, and PS is a great game and with the roleplaying thing, it can be a good game to play in your spare time or it can ruin your life. I will try to write more about this in a post later.

8. Your character is not you, be willing to loose: Your character might be epic, but things happen, and it's only a game, your reputation can go to 0 in just one day. Don't feel bad about it, even if it's your main character. Just roleplay how bad your character feels, but don't let the feeling get to you.



Part 2: Developers and GMs.

I know how it feels being in the elite, but developers and GMs must be in heaven if they really think that way. And it happens. Developers and GMs being unfair happen everyday, and shutting up mouths against them. Be sensitive, critics are good and everyone makes mistakes, and accepting that is what make good devs and GMs.

Another thing it's hard for me to understand is that when someone gives a developer an idea or a complain, I hear a "don't complain, contribute!" or a "don't just give ideas, make them come true, contribute!". I don't know anything about programming... does that mean I don't have a voice when it comes to give suggestions or report bugs? I try to understand developers are stressed, but instead of just whining about that, say "I will take it into account" and note it (write it down) and put it in the TODO list. If the reported bug is already being worked on, just tell them to be patient. I know sometimes it's hard, but believe me, you will reduce a lot your stress.



And now I repeat again: At least one of the points will fit you (I'd say point 4 would fit most of us), but I am not saying all developers, GMs and players are wrong. And of course newcomers are also guilty, but don't forget they are just newcomers, english might not be their main language and they need to practice. I'm sure 90% of players would roleplay if they were given a chance..

Please, I accept critics and suggestions to add to this post, but be sensitive, don't feel insulted, you know how it works, start changing the world by changing yourself first. Thank you for reading.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 03:36:27 am by neko kyouran »
"The same moment that you are seen as the best, the fastest and somebody that cannot be touched, you are enormously fragile." - Ayrton Senna


Timmothy Perriwinkle

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 06:21:05 pm »
The blue text is darn near impossible to read. If you want anyone to care about this post, I suggest you ditch colours altogether or choose ones that are aesthetically pleasing.


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Wavan Levironk

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 06:22:36 pm »
True, sorry changed that :)
"The same moment that you are seen as the best, the fastest and somebody that cannot be touched, you are enormously fragile." - Ayrton Senna


kiou

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 07:00:00 pm »
this seems like a combination of common sense, which we dont need to be told, and moderately offensive generalizations. and of course a nice helping of patronizing advice to the team.
 :thumbdown:

the colors make me want to gouge out my eyes, red green blue doesnt matter.

too mean?
if so im sorry, but i dont see a point here
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GlassZephyr

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 07:05:42 pm »
I've had similar complains as a minimal rper, but overall I don't have much of a problem with the senior members. it's the legions of fenkis whose descriptions state that they are so beautiful and unnaturally agile that I can't help but drool all over myself or some variation therein that really irks me. my main is a bit racist against fenkis and certainly isn't enraptured by any of them, it really irks me when their bio says that. also, how can all fenkis be unnaturally agile? alright kids, we can't all be above average.
 
I'd like to make a shout out to the nice fellows who invited me in to a two person conversation they were having in the tavern. I had minimal contact with either of them previously yet they invited me to join them regardless. This group quickly grew to a tableful of 5 rpers, most of whom had never met each other. if rp was dead that wouldn't happen. if people didn't invite each other to rp it wouldn't happen. but rp happens, and the way I see it, there are a lot of jerks living in yliakum but there are also some really cool people. just have to learn to rp around it.

Draklar

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 07:22:56 pm »
Most people have at least decent amount of common sense and some knowledge of what they should and what they shouldn't do. Most certainly, they usually strive to do what they feel is right. Of course, very few wish to be forced into following other's view of what right and wrong is. On the other side of the spectrum, yes, the obvious "truths" do appear as unneeded, but that doesn't necessarily mean people should avoid speaking it up.
Because knowing doesn't mean doing and it's always good if there are people that will occasionally point it all out again. However, this thread could only benefit if it had been presented as loose guidelines rather than (sure, mild) criticism.

6. You make stupid mistakes: Again, I saw a character who has been around for years, and in its description it said "His eyes make you feel respect". Why would I respect someone I don't know? I respect them as I respect any person I don't know, right?
I'd read that as "he appears to be very confident". At least that's how I'd feel about someone who maintains a strong eye contact. Most people shy away from prolonged gaze and yes, I actually feel more respect for people that don't. Alternatively he may be setting his eyes on your forehead, but that's more likely to cause intimidation than respect, I guess.
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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2009, 08:09:35 pm »
Another thing it's hard for me to understand is that when someone gives a developer an idea or a complain, I hear a "don't complain, contribute!" or a "don't just give ideas, make them come true, contribute!". I don't know anything about programming... does that mean I don't have a voice when it comes to give suggestions or report bugs? I try to understand developers are stressed, but instead of just whining about that, say "I will take it into account" and note it (write it down) and put it in the TODO list. If the reported bug is already being worked on, just tell them to be patient. I know sometimes it's hard, but believe me, you will reduce a lot your stress.

You do realize the Devs don't owe you anything, right? If you want to report a bug, do it on the bugtracker. It exists for a reason.

The Devs already have a TODO list and if they added every stupid suggestion nothing would ever get done. Why say you'll take something into account if that isn't going to happen?

Waylander

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2009, 08:34:09 pm »
6. You make stupid mistakes: Again, I saw a character who has been around for years, and in its description it said "His eyes make you feel respect". Why would I respect someone I don't know? I respect them as I respect any person I don't know, right?
I'd read that as "he appears to be very confident". At least that's how I'd feel about someone who maintains a strong eye contact. Most people shy away from prolonged gaze and yes, I actually feel more respect for people that don't. Alternatively he may be setting his eyes on your forehead, but that's more likely to cause intimidation than respect, I guess.

First, what are you doing here, Drak?  Get out :P

And second, telling somebody else what they should feel is wrong.  "He appears to be very confident" is fine "His eyes make you feel respect" is very much along the lines of "His teeth make you give him all your tria", it's godmoding, just accidental and to a small degree.
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PhoenixRizin

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2009, 08:49:52 pm »
I thoroughly enjoyed this post. And I know it seems like this stuff is common sense, but often times the simplest stuff gets lost and we need reminders of it. The thing i take most out of this is patience for fellow players and working together instead of yelling at each other. And I do agree it is very easy to get lost in a character because whether people admit it or not, a lot of ourselves do end up as part of these characters. I am fortunate to be involved in a lot of jobs and projects in my real life to help me keep my head there more than here, because honestly if i found PlaneShift or any other MMORPG 5 or 6 years ago I probably would have totally lost myself to it. That said, PlaneShift is a place I have found to make friends and have fun, and if that's why you are here then awesome! But also like he said, take some time for you as well. We'll be here when you get back :)
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Draklar

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2009, 09:31:51 pm »
And second, telling somebody else what they should feel is wrong.  "He appears to be very confident" is fine "His eyes make you feel respect" is very much along the lines of "His teeth make you give him all your tria", it's godmoding, just accidental and to a small degree.
Yes, people shouldn't try to impose emotions onto other characters. After all, no one can fully predict what's going to happen inside another's head. Here I'm speaking merely on a personal note and stating that I wouldn't be turned off by such a description (or maybe I would, it's hard to predict -- but I shouldn't ;)

It probably is some sort of a faux pas. Just saying 'you' can turn out to be so offensive... But if the rest of the description is at least decent, I think I should feel compelled to actually play out this enforced scenario. Maybe I wouldn't, but again - I should ;)

Overall I admit though, you're right. Now that you brought it up, it does appear to be a mild form of godmodding, and as such, it may fall under "bad rp". I don't think I can argue against that. I still find it to make sense though. We do usually make our first impressions of other people before they even speak a word. Their bodies can send signals that trigger respect, among other feelings (Unlike what the 6th point says, I do experience varying levels of respect towards people I only met just now). There, it was presented in an unproper way, but it's certainly not that intuitive to present such a first impression in a "clean" manner.
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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2009, 09:38:52 pm »
It's definitely not a line that would be a description breaker it's just not a good trend to follow.  I do agree that the same line worded differently "His eyes seem filled with a respectful aura" or some such would be fine.  Perhaps it wasn't the best example.
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Scarn

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2009, 10:37:39 pm »
this seems like a combination of common sense, which we dont need to be told, and moderately offensive generalizations. and of course a nice helping of patronizing advice to the team.
 :thumbdown:

the colors make me want to gouge out my eyes, red green blue doesnt matter.

too mean?
if so im sorry, but i dont see a point here

It's a good post and many people need to be reminded to use common sense. How are the generalizations offensive? It's not pointed at YOU it's what we see in general and I mostly agree.
Looking at the post and the reply given by you I'd say the post has far more points.
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Wavan Levironk

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2009, 11:52:10 pm »
As I said, this doesn't apply to everyone, there are players and players.

About the devs thing I wrote, I understand they have a lot of work and I know we have to use the bug tracker and that stuff, but what I have seen is SOME (not all) developers always saying they feel stressful, whinning more than the players.

And of course this post is all common sense, but if I didn't think it's  necessary to remind some things, I wouldn't have posted it.

And once again, about the respect thing. Just reading "You evaluate he might be impossible to defeat" is respectful enough, you don't have to say how your tail moves or what your eyes make you feel others since up to others' characters, not to yours.


Again, I don't want people to argue or to be offended, once again, this post is meant to be constructive.

And of course there could be more points, but this is just to give a general idea.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 11:53:57 pm by Wavan Levironk »
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Bguy

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2009, 12:01:00 am »
6. You make stupid mistakes: Again, I saw a character who has been around for years, and in its description it said "His eyes make you feel respect". Why would I respect someone I don't know? I respect them as I respect any person I don't know, right?
I'd read that as "he appears to be very confident". At least that's how I'd feel about someone who maintains a strong eye contact. Most people shy away from prolonged gaze and yes, I actually feel more respect for people that don't. Alternatively he may be setting his eyes on your forehead, but that's more likely to cause intimidation than respect, I guess.

First, what are you doing here, Drak?  Get out :P

And second, telling somebody else what they should feel is wrong.  "He appears to be very confident" is fine "His eyes make you feel respect" is very much along the lines of "His teeth make you give him all your tria", it's godmoding, just accidental and to a small degree.

To a small degree? God modding is god modding. Don't make fine lines, that will just confuse people. In my opinion, "His eyes make you feel respect" should be treated the same as "Anyone who looks in his eyes turns to stone and can never be cured, even by the strongest healers." (I know these are totally opposite and should be treated differently due to the obvious differences in intent, but intent should be the only difference maker. You should think god-mod first, then wonder how it should be treated.)

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2009, 12:05:15 am »


I think this point is trivial. If you don't like someone's character description then either ignore it or politely inform them.
A larger annoyance is flat out godmodding during rp however thats easy to remedy - just ignore it.