The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)

[Rigwyn]

Eh .. no Xoel, its the other way around. Loads of good players have left because the game does not support role play adequately. Incorporating these ideals long ago may have helped to prevent a lot of good players from leaving.   

[Xoel]

People leave anyway, the only game that has broken the three month play average is WoW.

[Rigwyn]

Xoel, that's the problem.
When you have a lot of good players, information that originally took a long time to learn is handed down to newer players. They learn rapidly, avoiding many mistakes. Players learn quickly and efficiently.

When a student goes to a university he learns at an accelerated rate because of this synergy.
Yes, new players can rediscover all of this from scratch but it will take a long long time.

Fortunately there are a few experienced role players left who care enought to promote and encourage role play.

[Xoel]

The real question is, will your solutions cull off more newbies (with the rather elitist rules being thrown at them before they even get a chance to login and see what the game's like) than it'll save oldbies?

[Rigwyn]

I would wirk with other seasoned role players to draft a set of rp rules and guidelines if I had reason to believe that it would be taken seriously, reviewed, discussed, and revised by the community. I would not want to spend the time only to see it get tossed aside.

You seem to thing that we want oppressively strict rules. That is not the case. That would indeed turn players away and cause further damage.

Is requiring players to stay in characyer elitist ?
I don't think so.

No godmodding.
Is that elitist ?
No. This is very fundamental.

Keep ic and ooc separate.
Is this elitist?
No. Again this is a fundamental skill that newbies need to learn. They will make mistakes and that's ok. People just meed to be proactive and teach when they mess up.

Stick to the setting.
Is this elitist? No.
New players need to learn a little about the setting before they can role play.
If you were thrown onto a movie set and told to play the part of "professor txpia", whould you know what to do ?
No, you know nothing about him.
And if you knew nothing about the movie'setting you would be really lost.
Same thing here.
This is why I suggest that new players draft a SIMPLE CHARACTER PROFILE and that it be ok'd by a gm before they enter.
Is this elitist?
It setting the bar above the ground, but no. Its not.

What is elitism?
Beating up on somwone for not being as good as you are even though they are doing their best.
Harassing others just for the sake of being a prick.
Looking for trivial reasons to exclude people from your click

To dat I have not come accross any players like this. Every role players I've met in ps has been more than willing to help me when I was new and tolerated my many mistakes.

Anyway, this is a rough taste of what is needed to start.

For a player to get better, hopefully they learn more things over time like:
* reacting to other players actions.
* accepting the consequences of their actions
* separating from their character
* allowing themselves to lose at times
* being vulnerable
* winning graciously
* how to run events
* how to deal with godmodders
* how to deal with players that drag in ooc info
* how to make good characters
* how to keep themselves from rushing the plot
* how to spy
* how to include quiet players

The list of things that mage a player good goes on and on. I am an average player. Someone who is more advanced could probably double or triple the length of this list.
 

[Xoel]

Again and again Rigwyn, you mention things that PS has already fixed - though I couldn't find anything on godmodding when I skimmed over the RolePlay guide.

heck, characters are meant to stay IC even in Guild and Group, according to the Roleplay guide. This piles onto your "Keep IC and OOC seperate", as if players are meant to be IC at all times, then OOC is seperated... meant to be kept on the forums, IRC channels, email, etc.

Requiring players to create a profile to be checked by a GM may not in truth be elitist, as let's face it, PS's GMs aren't fanatical about roleplay, but to the unknowing newb, it's very much an elitist appearance. Which is the only real reason I am against it. I wouldn't be against it, however, if the non-RP server was more active, and we as a community could afford to be picky about new members on what is currently our most active server.

[Illysia]

Xoel, fixed implies it's not a problem any more.

Scaring off newbs is bad, but so is appearing wishy washy. Not all newbs are completely new to the concept of RP, but without more guidlines, RP will come off as wishy washy and probably lame. Better to have everybody on the same page and need to turn your head for newbs, than to have way too much wacky stuff happening RPwise and people can't turn away for the train wreck. 

[Xoel]

Good god, the guidelines ARE THERE. As RlyDontKnow pointed out so so long ago.

[bloodedIrishman]

Look, to you people who want to change Planeshift Rules & Enforcement, it's not happening. The style of leadership in this game is constant, and the leader is the one who judges the rules and how they are enforced. For all the time I've been around this game, the law has not changed a whole lot.

This game won't ever be as strict as a server like Conquest of the Horde. It'll be a role play game, but "wishy washy" as was said.

If you want to change the game from within, join the GM Team or become an mover and a shaker within the community. The latter will change people's role playing because they will see how the alpha dogs to it, and in turn learn.

Don't waste your time with Role play drafts and all that gob. Molding the community is the best way to get role play to a "higher level" or fit your tastes.

[Illysia]

Xoel, remember how there have been graphics bugs in the past.... you know how we fixed them? Does that mean there are no graphics bugs now just because measures were taken in the past? Is it possible that new problems might have come up recently that make those old fixes not as useful as they used to be? And isn't it true that sometimes you just have to go through and upgrade?

Blooded, but that requires enough "Alpha players". Back at square one. Not that this shouldn't be done but it is going to take many measures to build up the community.

[Xoel]

bloodedIrishman is right tbh.

[RlyDontKnow]

I still have to agree with Xoel to some part - the rules are pretty much there (godmodding could indeed be explicitly stated, but w/e - imo that's part of "stay IC")

the real problem is that we don't have *short* rules that are really "to the point". instead we have those way too long drafts nobody even dares to read or knows where they are written after all. that *is* an issue imo and it's been pointed out often enough - though something nearly nobody can change

[Illysia]

This is the internet, practically everything needs to be stated explicitly. And I'm with Lhaa on this one, since when do you give up because you don't know what to do about the problem yet?  Letting a problem fester never fixed it, it only for sure gets worse that way.

[Xoel]

"letting a problem fester"

I don't think there is a problem with the current system at all. There ARE guidelines. People on the RP server DO roleplay. Sure, some of it is sub-standard, but whether or not a guide existed, there would always be players who need to learn as they play.

[Illysia]

There is a problem. The framework for them learning is shakier than shoddy scaffolding. The information is there, but that does not equate a working, efficient system... it doesn't even equate a working system. And people stopped saying there is no RP long ago Xoel, nobody but you keep bring that old argument up.

...long drafts nobody even dares to read or knows where they are written after all.

Even RlyDontKNow has pointed out that random info floating around is not particularly helpful.