Author Topic: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)  (Read 38215 times)

Xoel

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #150 on: July 17, 2010, 11:40:40 am »
No, he pointed out that nobody reads the T&Cs.

Rigwyn

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #151 on: July 17, 2010, 12:13:14 pm »

I assume that the intention of the rules regarding RP is to guide and mould players towards an acceptable standard. Onec achieved, players should be able to interact satisfactorily. There should be clear understanding of what is acceptable and what is not. When disputes about what is acceptable arise they should be able to refer back to the rules in order to settle the matter themselves. Shoudl it go beyond that point and they need help with resolving their conflict they might call in a GM for assistance. That GM would use their judgement to decide on how the rules apply to their dilema.

Rules that are not clear cut detract from this.
Likewise, rules that do not define an acceptable standard for play do not achieve this goal.

Yes, the rules are there and cover some important aspects of acceptable of play however I think many of the more experienced role players would conceede that there is much room for improvement. Many of the more experienced role players have left unfortunately so there are not that many left to ask.

Consider for a moment, the effect of removing these rules altogether. Would that encourage more newcomers to play? Would it be good for the community?

Perhaps new players would find it much easier and less intimidating. Anything they say or do would be valid. Super. But what about those who are serious about role play?
You might say, well they can just go somewhere else, or teach the newcommers themselves. Fine. A player starts ruining an RP by dragginh in ooc info. You very politely inform him of his error in a tell. He says, "Well, the rules don't say anything about that, so piss off you elitist pig"

Any thing above that ultra low standard would eventually be called elitism :)

You say there is role play on the server now, however it is substandard. You also seems to suggest that there are no problems. Everything is fine the way it us. Perhaps for you everything is fine and dandy. You are up to your nose in a pile of liquid shit. If it gets any higher you will drown, but as long as you stay still and balance on your toes you will be fine. We all have different ideas about what is acceptable and fun. What is acceptable and fun for you is not necessarily acceptable and fun for others.
* Rigwyn tosses a huge boulder into Xoel's tranquil cesspool and laughs as the ripples approach him.

Anyway, maybe its just me. Perhaps my idea of what is good and acceptable has grown to a point that make me incompatible with the game.
Perhaps I need to take a better look at myself.

There was a lot of wisdom in Pepito's post.




Xoel

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #152 on: July 17, 2010, 12:37:43 pm »
Did you stop to think that when someone else's playstyle is incompatible with yours, you have, OMFG, wait for it.... an /ignore button?!

Most players with any inkling of intelligence realise godmodding is unacceptable the first time they're told.

Besides, players break the rules all the time. Then they get banned. Then they ban-evade. What's the point?

The truth about why roleplaying is dying is because no one can be bothered taking any time to teach new players. Only, it's not dying.

Rigwyn

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #153 on: July 17, 2010, 01:04:53 pm »
Honestly, I give up.
Enjoy.

Sarva

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #154 on: July 17, 2010, 03:48:20 pm »
Sorry simply having better written rules isn't going to solve the problems. First off the vast majority of people will never read the rules. Having come from a sports officials background before becoming a GM I am painfully aware of how people will not read rules, IN fact most of the time the people who will read the rules are troublemakers  who will read the rules and then use them to argue their case against you.

Let's  look at an example. I think the people who argue for better more explicit rules can agree that the naming guidelines is more along the lines of that they are looking for for RP in general. Does the well written out naming guidelines prevent people from selecting unacceptable names?  NO not at all. Does the naming guidelines prevent fights over what is an acceptable name? Once again no not at all. Just the other day we had a case where a player argued for 45 minutes with 3 GM saying his name was acceptable when clearly it wasn't. The GMs finally just gave him a random name and the player then asked that his account be deleted.

I think the guidelines the way there are now are good enough to prevent most of the behavior people are complaining about here. The problem with more specific rules like hoe the naming guidelines are is that they will tend to scare more people off , since in general more rules/restrictions means a more authoritarian system to most people, and it will give those who wish to fight over matter more ammunition since they will tend to point out " Well this specific situation isn't covered while all these other specific situations are."

I think the real problem is we don't have, and I don't think we ever will, enough GMs to be all places at all times and see all the problems as soon as they occur.  We need players to help be our eyes and ears. you see a bad name you report it. you see an improper character Desc you report it you see excessive OOC in main or godmoding report it.  If there are problems with what another character has said in main, or in a tell or group to you , then use the /report <player> command then after doing the report contact a GM either via tell or if none is online file a petition.

Yes when GMs know of problems we take action. I have been involved in a few character description changes and I am waiting for a player with a problem desc to come back online, since he logged off before we could talk about the problems in his desc.  I have talked to players who had OOC in main that didn't relate to the ongoing RP and told them to knock it off.I have worked with new players having a problem with IC and OOC chat in main to try and teach them what they have been dong wrong.

The other problem is that even with well written rules there will always be different views as to what is allowed and what isn't allowed under those rules. Even on the GM team we will have different opinions as to what is allowed. That is always going to be an area of contention. Remember when you ask for better enforcement of the rules you need to realize that the rule enforcers ( aka the GMs here) may not always see things the way you do.

Illysia

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #155 on: July 17, 2010, 09:19:19 pm »
OK, I give up on this too.. It will take far too much to bother explaining and it would  just be more spinning wheels needlessly. I would like to attempt to get RPers together in order to discuss possible RP rules without the usual forum Hooha, if you would like to get in on it. Please PM me. Those that left this forum should try the OL forums to reach me. I'd like to use IRC for the discussion so if possible try to catch me in IRC. If you want to be a part just to say it's a bad idea, or a waste of time, etc... don't bother, stay here on the forums and spin your wheels like has been happening. I'm actually going to try one last push to get something useful accomplished.

Geoni

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #156 on: July 17, 2010, 09:48:37 pm »
@Rigwyn I'm sorry to see you leave the forums, as one of the people who actually took the time to say the things that mattered and have that torn apart by people who don't understand what you are talking about makes me worry for the community.

@Xoel you keep using this word "elitist" when all these "elitists" are doing is trying to improve RP on the server, since it is becoming less and less of what it used to be, and more of an exclusive V.I.P. club. However I do agree with you that we need to teach newbs how to RP and stay in the settings. However, this isn't the easiest thing to do and that leads me to...

@Sarva: The problem with the new players is that they are either here to become a PLer or they find something interesting about the settings of the game that makes them want to play it. Now just because they began to play because of that interest doesn't mean they are doing it right, and when people spend more and more time doing things wrong while thinking those things are right, they begin to become stubborn, and those are the types who won't change even if a GM tells them to. There are also those PLers who think they are in the settings and they are not, and those can be a stubborn fight too. I agree that more reporting from players would help the little GM's that there are, and I'll try my best to lookout for OOC descriptions and names that just can't fit into the RP server.

@Pepito: Even if it was a bit saddening to read, I agree with your last post on this thread. Though you forgot to mention that some people don't play the game anymore because of technical issues. These technical issues is what has led us to where we are now, with such a low player count.

So why is RP dying?

Low Player Count

I can't think of any other reason why there is less RP as there used to be. Many people who were avid roleplayers left because of the technical issues to face during 0.5, the low player count that came to follow because of the issues people were having during the change to 0.5, or they just don't like the way the RP community is going.

I think now that there is little possibility to run into a different character and greet them, and roleplaying that you know that character because your character has ACTUALLY met that character, people have abandoned this, and turn to OOC roleplaying. I find it harder and harder to meet new characters in game because when I stop and try to greet somebody, they simply run past me, or if my character tries to greet somebody new, that person is ignoring your character because you are not a part of their preplanned RP's and RP clicks. There are hardly anymore characters in game who's every move is not controlled by the mind of their player, and how their other players friends agree on how things should go. Now these players like to do everything the way they want to, and ignore those who let their characters actually do the things they would do ICly. There are few players that are strictly IC anymore, and I find it sad. I think people have accustomed comfortably to pre-planning RP's and playing around certain dictated conflicts because nothing would happen if they let their characters do what they would TRULY do, because there would be no interaction due to the low player count. Hydlaa often looks like a ghost town for goodness sake.

I think what needs to be done is this:

-We should try and help new players stay IC and not get sucked into PLing.
-Enforce the settings to players who are straying from them, and making things up for their RP's.
-Do what Sarva said and report nonsense to the GM's.
-Stop running by people and stop for once, like normal people would do on the streets during the olden days. It's as if some of us don't see the characters that our characters RUN by, and that makes the "runner-byers" look like blind idiots. Lets stop that.
-Perhaps we should try not to play on so many different characters. I know some of us do because it is helping to the community, but many times characters are losing bonds because they don't see eachother as often anymore.
-Time to STOP pre-planning RP's and dictating little plots and plays for our characters to play out. You people know who you are.
-Religion is less involved in RP's these days. With all of these kidnappings and murders I would think that people would be worshiping more often, but they are not. I remember when religion was a big thing for many characters, and the only active religious guild I ever see is Daughters of Xiosia. Laanx temple seems abandoned, and the death realm is never seen as less than a 5 minute run-through. There are a few Talad worshipers around, but not many seem to pray much.
-Let's not just play because of events that could happen, lets play because your character has a life in game, not sleeping until some party comes up.

I really have nothing more to say in this thread.


-sig by sarras

Sarras Volcae

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #157 on: July 17, 2010, 11:59:56 pm »
Did you stop to think that when someone else's playstyle is incompatible with yours, you have, OMFG, wait for it.... an /ignore button?!

Most players with any inkling of intelligence realise godmodding is unacceptable the first time they're told.

Besides, players break the rules all the time. Then they get banned. Then they ban-evade. What's the point?

The truth about why roleplaying is dying is because no one can be bothered taking any time to teach new players. Only, it's not dying.

there are a lot of stupid people in the world. being so "smart", you should understand that. you should always account for stupid people.

what's the point? to stop them. hell! at least when they ban-evade they'll know what they did wrong. it happens. it always happens. on every game. you have to account for rule-breakers too. don't give up. that's weak.

i'm going to go ahead and speak my mind, and i think i can speak for everyone elses' too. you are incredibly pretentious, egotistical, and obstinate. and annoying as hell. quit being such a disingenuous pain in the arse. really.

i might follow rigwyn's lead. you'll like that. your attitude is what makes people leave. you play like you're oblivious to all the problems. this game needs to start assessing the problems. ignoring problems will only make them worse. this game is in beta after all. there are going to be problems.

also, i think the GMs need to crack down. they don't need to argue with players. they're GMs for god's sake. if someone's breaking the rules, give them a warning, and if they do it again, give them a little time out. and there's no need to roleplay it. i think the GM team needs to rethink the way they do things.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 12:05:06 am by Sarras Volcae »

bloodedIrishman

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #158 on: July 18, 2010, 01:20:17 am »
Ah Rigwyn. You'll find a better place in another game. In any case, i'm not leaving.  ;D Yay! bloodedIrishman stays!

Overtherainbow

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #159 on: July 19, 2010, 06:57:22 am »
Ah Rigwyn. You'll find a better place in another game. In any case, i'm not leaving.  ;D Yay! bloodedIrishman stays!

I'm overcome with a world of joy and happiness.

bloodedIrishman

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #160 on: July 19, 2010, 07:06:09 am »
You're welcome kid

Knightspark9

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #161 on: July 31, 2010, 06:20:41 pm »
Aw, this brings back memories. Sorry people, but a lot of you are already around long enough to know that such a discussion leads nowhere...even less change anything the PS team does/thinks. No idea why some still try...but at least it was good for me to see that a few people who disagreed with me in the past seems to have reconsidered a few things. But I thought it's clear by now that this can't be expected from the PS team...they can't have the wrong opinion as they are the ones who create this game.

There's still some hope left. There is always some hope. I mean, I've been scheduling events every once in a while to help. Some decent Role-players came, some newbies who learned. I'm not giving up.
Ardoin: So, do you drink moonshine?
Earowo: As long as it has alcohol, I'll drink it.

Wavan Levironk

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #162 on: August 01, 2010, 07:08:51 pm »
I wrote this post a year ago mainly blaming players and the "love" they had for their characters and how the oldbies were really closed to roleplay with newbies. Lately it seems to be the other way around, people blaming game mechanics and developers.

Maybe you haven't realized it, or maybe I'm wrong, but I have seen lots of posts complaining against developers and they don't get removed. When I left this game, every post you wrote against them was deleted in seconds/minutes. As I said, maybe I am mistaken, but I think the situation changed since now they are reading our posts, replying and listening to players, and now I see more complains than ever. Which won't happen in the vast majority of games nowadays.

I am not saying devs are doing (or will do) something about it, but listening is a first step.
"The same moment that you are seen as the best, the fastest and somebody that cannot be touched, you are enormously fragile." - Ayrton Senna


Illysia

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #163 on: August 01, 2010, 11:05:44 pm »
Listening is not the same as not deleting. I will give them credit, they are doing a smart thing. They aren't listening, they just aren't making martyrs out of those that step up to complain... Martyrs become more problematic than the original complaint.

verden

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #164 on: August 01, 2010, 11:32:42 pm »
Especially ones that hang around after posting dramatic "I'm Leaving!" threads.