Author Topic: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)  (Read 38305 times)

Phage

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #180 on: August 05, 2010, 10:47:09 pm »
I am missing Illysia, and also Rotbartgrim!
Some other people I am missing as well.
Over there, lurking from safe distance.

Illysia

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #181 on: August 05, 2010, 10:57:13 pm »
Aww... <3 Phage. But I might add that I have not been in game since before I left it. I'm just here because it's better to waste your time in the internet blackholes you know rather than those you don't.  ;D And on the note of punishment... I'd rather just smack people with the Wooden Spoon of DOOM(tm) than leave. Shame though, I can't do that either now as I have already bequeathed it to another.  ::)

novacadian

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #182 on: August 06, 2010, 09:28:25 am »

It will soon be 2 months since starting PS. This does not make me an expert by any means yet it is certainly enough to give me an impression of the state of things and to have a valid opinion about it.

It is my feeling the Role Playing is not dying in the game; it is simply changing.

This perspective is based on having shared Role Plays with older players to the game as well as newer ones.

It is hard for me to speak of how things used to be; yet from reading the forum end to end and talking and Role Playing with established players it has given me a feel for it.

The game is in flux due to it being in pre-Beta development; so it is no surprise that Role Playing has changed here as well. The older style of play did not have much; by today's extent; of the game mechanics that the software now provides. This could be compared to how Role Playing has changed since early D&D to AD&D and beyond.

Even more than that it appears to me that the term RP has come to mean something unique to many of the older PS players and is not so much Role Playing but a style of Role Playing more in the vein of Chat Room style Role Playing. That is not heavy handedness of a Game Master style of play with dice rolls and exactness of outcome but more a free flow of inventive storyline based more on consensus among the players than any rule based system based heavily on dice.

As the mechanics of the software begins to offer such a rule based system with such things as PvP battles it is only normal that the style of play may shift more in that direction for many players. That is not to mean that it is forced upon those who do not wish to conform to it; yet by the same token they will not be able to force the older style on new players.

This transition has probably lead to a feeling among many players that there are many subsets of Role Playing currently being employed on the PS Role Playing server.

This transitions seems to have lead some of the older players to feel that Role Playing (or their form of it which they call RP) is dying. Perhaps in their strict definition it is; yet that does not mean that Role Playing is dying from all players' perspective.

Another observation that seems to be evident to all players is that the player base is down from what it had been. Many reasons are given for that fact; yet it must most certainly be accounted for a number of different reason; the least of which is software growing pains as well as older players being turned off by the evolution of the software mechanics and the resulting evolution of Role Playing style.

This can all be dealt with if there is a period of some active GM involvement yet it has been made clearly evident that the current staff size does not allow this at present. My experience in online games it that maybe 10% of the player base spends any consistent time in the game forums. That is likely a fair estimate of the percentage of players that move towards helping in development. So as the player base grows (which seems certain to happen to me) those percentages will translate into a larger dev team which could be more enforcing of the Role Playing standards in PS.

Even in its present state this is one of the best online Role Playing environments found to date by me. The degree of immersion that is expected and enforced seems amazing to me. My style of Role Playing in such a software environment does not have someone tell me after the fact that they have pulled some invisible string to release invisible poison which affected my character. Instead my wish is to have real hidden trap item that my Find Traps skill may detect. It is my feeling that that is where development is heading; and has headed in many way from the older days.

Does that make me less of a Role Player than the old school? You can decide; yet to make that judgement fosters the concept of schools/camps/styles of what Role Play should be.

To me, if there is a place on the internet where Role Playing is not dead, it is here on PS. What is dead is previous online verions of the game and the styles which were prevalent in their respective sandbox.

If one wants a particular style of play then play it! Bemoaning on the forums will only drive new players away. Reading much of the forum before entering the game made me think that the time had passed for real Role Playing here. That assumption could not have been more wrong from my perspective.

- Nova


khoridor

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #183 on: August 06, 2010, 10:26:47 am »
It is hard for me to speak of how things used to be; yet from reading the forum end to end and talking and Role Playing with established players it has given me a feel for it.

The game is in flux due to it being in pre-Beta development; so it is no surprise that Role Playing has changed here as well. The older style of play did not have much; by today's extent; of the game mechanics that the software now provides. This could be compared to how Role Playing has changed since early D&D to AD&D and beyond.
It used to be pretty much the same: threads dramatically revealing the death of RP for many years.

Also, you'll have to quit your tabletop RPG references at some point, you know... because not only online games have little to do with it, but also (A)D&D is not the only way to play tabletop RPG, with a GM and.throwing dice and such...

novacadian

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #184 on: August 06, 2010, 05:08:59 pm »
.... but also (A)D&D is not the only way to play tabletop RPG, with a GM and.throwing dice and such...

That's fair enough, khoridor, and you are, most likely, correct. The reason it has been stressed, to date, is that the use of the term RP on the forum is very confusing to many new players regardless of their Role Playing styles and background. Particularly when such a thread, as this, suggests that RP is dying.

To a new reader on the forum It came off, to me, like calling a car a truck once my head got around what was truly being discussed.

- Nova

Sillamon

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #185 on: August 06, 2010, 07:01:26 pm »
@Nova There are several styles of rp that were common in ps. they are not that different and an inexperienced player can very easily adapt to these different styles. They type of RP that Illysia has described in the past is more like a slow, progressive story. The joy is in watching how characters interact with one another as the story progresses. In my mind this resembles a soap opera.  Others would describe it differently.

The type that I like is similar, however things happen faster. Over the course of hours or days there may be rising action, a battlle/struggle, and denouement. Typically when I played, everything was freestyle. One player would attempt and action, and the other player would determine the effect if any. There is no planning here, no dice rolls, everything happens spontaneously. In this type of RP its critical that players be able to separate IC from OOC info as failure to do so would ruin the evolving plot. For example, if we were planning a surprise attack, and someone else learned about this oocly, and then made their character icly inform the guards of our plans. In this case, what really sucks is not the losing part, but the fact that it doesn't make any sense. You reach a point in the game where everyone sees the inconsistency and then has to stop. When stories become inconsistent like this, they are just garbage.

There are also player-run events. These are a little different from completely spontaneous role play. With player led events, one or more players will either have a pre-planned plot that they will present to other players, or else they will try to nudge the rp so that the plot evolves on its own. They may even act as a guide in the rp in the way that a Dm might. In each case, players let their characters react as they wish and are free to do anything they want.  There is no script in this case, just some structure to guide the plot.

Some players did dice roll, but I have only seen that happen once or twice.

As for the quality of RP, it is shot at this point. There was a time when you could walk to the plaza and just *be* your character. Others would do the same. When I starting RPing, you had to sniff out the RPers first ( ie, check to see if they bothered to make a character descritpion ). If you are new to RP in PS then it probably does not look that bad from your perspective. People are talking in character here and there...

So what do we mean by BAD rp ?

Good RP is like watching a movie or reading a good book. You forget about yourself and get sucked into this fictional world where there are no players, just characters. You become IMMERSED. You may even imagine some details that were not typed in as you become more immersed. This makes the RP very real.  Characters make sense, are believable, and fit into the PS world. When you return the next day, Joale still has the same personality and fighting technique, Caira still has a grudge against you from a week ago, Stashka is still a crackpot, and Jacula is still all firey and pissed. Better watch your back! People play out the consequences of their actions. If you slap someone, it hurts them, and they react accordingly, If you kill their best friend, they grieve. If you wrong them, they come after you... perhaps with a friend or two. Characters have likes, dislikes, opinions, preferences, fears, strengths, weaknesses, etc... They are not just cookie-cutter characters with their life history and parents name stamped on their backs.

BAD RP includes people going out of character and saying things in main like "LOL.. that was cool man. Crap! phone....[phone - brb]", or having the continuity of the story destroyed by people that drag in IC info. There are those too who dont rp at all. They usually say something stupid if you speak to them in character. There are those who dont understand that IC actions are not directed at them personally. they will feel hurt when attacked, cheated or broken up with. They may become obsessed with someone who comes on to them There are the MarySue characters who are nothing more than a hollow shell, and the Blank Characters who seem to have just sprouted up from a cabbage patch as adults with no personality, history, preferences, dislikes, etc.. You have your continuity breakers who don't remembering what was RP'd last. You killed bob brutally yesterday, and today he's like "Oh Hai! Nice to see you again buddy!". Some folks with ready your guild tag, which is ooc information, and treat your differently as a result. The most amusing imho are the overpowered characters who do things like freeze you in place with their frost spells so that they can godmod the crap out of you. Only a complete control freak would do something like this.

BAD RP also includes the GM led events that we used to see where GM's would RP badly and give way inappropriate prizes. Players would flock around them and do whatever it took to "win" a prize. If they had to quack like a duck, they would just do it.  ( even if their charcter was some kind of badass or someome who's afraid of ducks ).  This is called going out of character. Whats worst is that they act like players, and not like their characters. Players see this crap and say, oh, this must be legitimate.. its was a GM event. In defense of GM events, the rules have changed since then and GMs now only give out appropriate gifts. A GM black smith might reward you with a reasonable sword or axe - not an indestructible holy helm, or a nuke-everybody-at-once glyph. Gardener might reward you with a plant or something natural .. not gold plated plate armor and fancy-sticks.

Now, if I might point out one little thing .. all this BAD RP that I pointed out is acceptable in Planeshift. Planeshift does not care how crappy your RP is. This is why players have asked for better support for rp in the form of rules. 

Given this info, look at how others are role playing. Which camp do they belong in ? Good or Bad ?

When I left people were not role playing at all when I was on. You couldn't even find crappy players to play with. dont get me wrong, there were a few good players, and a few excellent players in the mix. most of these players have left however...;( boo hoo.

Some say that I am an elitist because of my views on RP. If  this is elitism, then so be it. its just a word. I don't agree with bashing new players and making them feel bad about their mistakes, rather I have spent a lot of time training and entertaining each and every newcomer that has come my way. If thats what an elitist is then an elitist as not such a bad thing.

From a subjective point of view, if you leave an RP feeling like "Wow, that was awesome!" then I guess its good enough for the time being - for you. This till will change with time.

Good luck.
If you want to take a step up in the RP world, look for me in IRC or on the Outlaws forum.

Rigwyn ;)

Illysia

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #186 on: August 06, 2010, 09:22:23 pm »
Admirable attempt at explaining Rig, but this is what would be the only part that will probably make a difference to most. If they get that far.

From a subjective point of view, if you leave an RP feeling like "Wow, that was awesome!" then I guess its good enough for the time being - for you.

I personally give up on explaining. Those that get it get it, regardless of their ability to RP, and those that don't... don't. The problem that people whine about is that RP is unacceptable and of low quality. We have no control over the title of the thread anymore but I didn't imagine that it would give so much problem... RP is not dead, it's simple... too simple for the people that left as we know it can be so much more.

Geoni

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #187 on: August 07, 2010, 01:09:58 am »
About this Mary Sue thing, sorry Rigwyn, but I have to explain it more blatantly for those who create these "Mary Sue's". You explained the qualities but the main point people need to understand is this:

DON'T CREATE A CHARACTER JUST FOR A CERTAIN PURPOSE, TO BE IN A CERTAIN PLOT, OR TO INTERACT WITH A CERTAIN CHARACTER.

They end up having these crappy qualities:

nothing more than a hollow shell, and the Blank Characters who seem to have just sprouted up from a cabbage patch as adults with no personality, history, preferences, dislikes, etc..

Anyhoo, pretty much agree with what you've said, though I would have to say that I also haven't seen the dice roll but a few times but I noticed and have heard that people are using it more often. I think it is a good system that prevents godmodding, but it should never be done on the main like I've seen and read. Instead, people need to do it in tells or group, if that is possible. If that isn't, just RP spontaneously because all of that dice rolling just floods the main.



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Illysia

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #188 on: August 07, 2010, 01:22:44 am »
Has anyone noticed that a lack of maturity or courteousness in RPers seems be the root of the problem? Dice are nice but mature individuals should be able to be reasonable in deciding actions and outcomes. Relying only on dice seems more like you can't even trust yourself to be fair. Not that there is anything wrong with dice but you should be able to switch off on having successes and losses with the other person, even without dice.

This is how Illy died. I and whoever it was that killed her switched off having things work. True it took some OOC coordinating, but that didn't hinder things too much. Also, when it was his turn to have a win and whatever he tried was unlikely to work, I suggested alternative actions that would be more reasonable, fit into the story given background stuff, and allow him a chance to do something along the lines of what had intended. Sure I didn't want Illy to die but sometimes you just have to suck it up and be reasonable.

And on the point of Mary sues... don't think of your character as a plot device, something that just pushes the plot forward, think of your character as a person with feelings, personality, and realistic motivations. Think about how a person like them would actually react. Try to anticipate the thought process of the person.

bloodedIrishman

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #189 on: August 07, 2010, 03:34:52 am »
Quote
And on the point of Mary sues... don't think of your character as a plot device, something that just pushes the plot forward, think of your character as a person with feelings, personality, and realistic motivations.
Characters should not advance stories. Stories advance characters.

novacadian

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #190 on: August 07, 2010, 07:55:53 am »
I personally give up on explaining.

That seemed too good to be true.

- Nova

Overtherainbow

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #191 on: August 07, 2010, 07:59:28 am »
DON'T CREATE A CHARACTER JUST FOR A CERTAIN PURPOSE, TO BE IN A CERTAIN PLOT, OR TO INTERACT WITH A CERTAIN CHARACTER.

We're looking at you Alirukell/Nalelack/Jelor/OVER9000ALTS!!

Geoni

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #192 on: August 07, 2010, 06:25:00 pm »
Quote
And on the point of Mary sues... don't think of your character as a plot device, something that just pushes the plot forward, think of your character as a person with feelings, personality, and realistic motivations.
Characters should not advance stories. Stories advance characters.

Bingo. Easiest way to explain it.


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Sarras Volcae

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #193 on: August 17, 2010, 11:18:54 pm »
About this Mary Sue thing, sorry Rigwyn, but I have to explain it more blatantly for those who create these "Mary Sue's". You explained the qualities but the main point people need to understand is this:

DON'T CREATE A CHARACTER JUST FOR A CERTAIN PURPOSE, TO BE IN A CERTAIN PLOT, OR TO INTERACT WITH A CERTAIN CHARACTER.
nothing more than a hollow shell, and the Blank Characters who seem to have just sprouted up from a cabbage patch as adults with no personality, history, preferences, dislikes, etc..

OMG yesss! i loathe those characters. you try to interact with them outside their intricate little plot and they'll ignore you completely. and they behave like mental retards in conversations. nor can you actually roleplay with them without "messing up" their plot. al;sdjflskdn!

Caraick

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Re: The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)
« Reply #194 on: August 18, 2010, 04:14:13 pm »
Quote
And on the point of Mary sues... don't think of your character as a plot device, something that just pushes the plot forward, think of your character as a person with feelings, personality, and realistic motivations.
Characters should not advance stories. Stories advance characters.

Extraordinarily well put.... I like this, and couldn't agree more :)


And Riggy, that was a fantastic explanation, I couldn't have put it any better, thanks for posting that, I only hope players can actually find this thread to read that...




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