Author Topic: The Correct Description  (Read 9679 times)

Aiwendil

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2009, 03:29:36 pm »
In fact if this is your view then why not go all the way and have no description at all as I can already see what race you are and whether you are wearing armour/ swords etc.?
At the moment nobody can see what race Aiwendil is. Nobody sees her tail or her black skin. The uneditable start of the description even states she is a Ynnwn. Without the text there would be not chance to tell others that she isn't one. The same is true for the dresses she wears, the injuries she has or what kind of jewelery she wears.

Forgive me if you think this is naïve but how is limiting descriptions to only what you can see at a glance conducive to good role play?
When you see a person in RL you notice the scars in the face, but you will have no idea how he/she got those scars. If you want to know you have to ask the person. About the same applies for roleplay in the game. It's not very helpful for roleplay if you go to a person, read the description and then know by magic means that the person got the scars by defending his sister but failed and now feels sad about his dead sister and tries to help everyone else around. This are information one should acquire in a conversation with that person. Or in my view it's even worse if you ask someone about the scars and only get as answers "Read my description". I don't get any idea how the person reacts to the questions in this case, I don't see how he talks about the events in his/her/kra past.  Not very helpful to get a impression of the other char. Roleplay is a lot about communicating with other characters and in my view the description should be a tool for this, but by no means replace the conversation with the other char.



weltall

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2009, 03:40:15 pm »
on t he other side it might help to remember traits of people you've known and it's always nice to read a well done story. but the reader must also be careful to not use the elements in the rp till he knows them in another way, for sure an easy pitfall...

angstrom

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2009, 06:14:20 pm »
And please don't forget the other senses.

It's nice to discover that the tinkling sound is a bell tied to an enki, or the unusual smell is coming from the dwarf in the corner :-[
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Lhaa

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2009, 10:26:59 pm »
I know this topic has been raised many times
There may be a reason for that. ;)

but have yet to hear a good reason for it
You have been given plenty.

In fact if this is your view then why not go all the way and have no description at all as I can already see what race you are and whether you are wearing armour/ swords etc.?
But have some more...

Swords shouldn't be seen at all most often because it's forbidden to draw them in guarded towns, besides it's simply lack of manners to go around waving them in people's faces. The only way to really let people know what's your weapon of choice in such places is describing them or the sheathes.
Armor isn't the only thing somebody can wear. In fact, I still never saw nobody in armor at the supermarket yet. So the description works dandy to tell what is for instance your character's casual outfit.
Your character can as well wear rings (even mechanics-wise ;), pendants, belts, backpacks, earrings, hats... it can have tattoos that make it easy to be recognized, it can have certain scars, it can have long, short hair, beard or not. It can have a cold or warm look in its eyes, can walk in a certain fashion, can be missing an arm or a hand, can speak slow or quick, can have a manly or a girly voice, can be muscled, fat or slim, can carry something in its hands for a while, can be clean or dirty, can smell good or bad, can look after itself or not, can have a hump or not, can have short or long nails, can have short or long nose, can.... ;)

Poke if you need more ideas for a description without a background story.


As for the main reason why I don't even read a description that has a story in it; it simply spoils my fun.
I don't want to read whatever somebody has done in the past, I'd rather interact with that character and have my own character find out before I know what do I have to ask for to get it out of him/her/kra. It's taking chances of RP from me, thus I dismiss whatever says there and go ahead with my ignorance.
If the concept of background stories in description was to take over other areas of the game we'd probably stop roleplaying at all and come to the forums to write. In the end, why play the character at all if you can just explain people whatever you want to? There is no need for interaction, and is much easier to grind IG while you write here than to stop grinding to roleplay. ;)

kaerli2

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2009, 01:37:42 am »
Indeed, none of my 10 characters has a backstory in their description.


Order I use:
*Recent changes section (if present)*

*Basics (race, gender, age, overall build)*
*Facial features*
*Clothing, going from top down*
*Jewelry/accessories/any weapons they may have on*
*Hidden things*
*Any personality traits that I wish to include*

Sarras Volcae

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2009, 02:01:00 am »
I would like to file a complaint about other female chars' descs having a ridiculous amount of attention paid to their breasts, legs, butt, etc. it's nauseating. and disappointing to see that most of the other women playing this game feel like their chars have to look like skanks

angstrom

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2009, 12:40:55 pm »
I would like to file a complaint about other female chars' descs having a ridiculous amount of attention paid to their breasts, legs, butt, etc. it's nauseating. and disappointing to see that most of the other women playing this game feel like their chars have to look like skanks

But to say that any woman with large breasts/shapely legs/tight butt is a skank is unfair and offensive.  Can't women playing at home have a character with a deep, well rounded personality, interesting traits, useful skills and an attractive physique?

You might not like it, Sarras, but you make your choices - let other people make theirs
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Sarras Volcae

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2009, 01:34:05 pm »
I would like to file a complaint about other female chars' descs having a ridiculous amount of attention paid to their breasts, legs, butt, etc. it's nauseating. and disappointing to see that most of the other women playing this game feel like their chars have to look like skanks

But to say that any woman with large breasts/shapely legs/tight butt is a skank is unfair and offensive.  Can't women playing at home have a character with a deep, well rounded personality, interesting traits, useful skills and an attractive physique?

You might not like it, Sarras, but you make your choices - let other people make theirs

lmao! either you're one of these self-conscious women or you have no clue what i'm talking about.

neko kyouran

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2009, 02:30:31 pm »

Ceraline

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2009, 02:34:52 pm »
Thanks for the replies, and it is interesting to see people justify their enjoyment of enamouring their physical descriptions.  Over the years I have seen numerous such descriptions, often very eloquent and well written. However after a while I observed that often they contributed little to the character’s role play if indeed they bothered to use it at all. During this same period I have seen a core of players become increasingly objectionable to characters backgrounds being included, insisting theirs is the only correct form of role play. The 20 question format may well be the style of role play they enjoy however it is not the only style of role play.

I did not disagree there are elements in physical descriptions that can assist role play. However, even these can contain flaws if we wish to be purist as per the following examples.

I think there are supermarkets in RL where armour would be useful :whistling:, though none in Yliakum, unless you include the ‘market’ at Oja where the rogues may justify the wearing of armour. However equally unusual is finding people wearing the same clothes and adornments, day in and day out, no matter what their environment. I guess we should not always point at the nearest dwarf for the strange odours :D.

Whilst it is correct that I should not see you brandishing your weapon in public, the only people who will know your favoured weapon are people who already know you or have seen you fight. Unless I am put into a situation or intend seeing your weapon in action I have no real interest in knowing about it in any detail. This can be easily catered for with a simple shortcut whenever you brandish the weapon, rather than in the description.

The expected reaction to scars is interesting but I feel a little unnatural. In RL the reaction will vary from wariness of a potential troublemaker through to to sympathy, with most people being discrete to ascertain the cause usually from a 3rd party. Few would enquire of the recipient directly. In Yliakum the scar may be less interesting (most seem to have one or two) as plenty use the arena where such scarring could probably be considered an everyday occurrence.

However it is not my intention to criticise anyone in particular for employing such descriptions though be aware that any long and over-elaborate description can be equally as tedious and irrelevant to read for others as you may find character backgrounds. In particular I do find Lhaa to be one of the better rpers around, so though I have used some of her examples the criticisms are necessarily directed at her usage and I hope haven’t been taken personally.

Personally it is not my preference to play 20 questions to find out about your character through enquiries about your scars or adornments, particularly if I then find out yours is not the type of character mine would hang out with. I wouldn’t do this in RL so why do it here? It is more natural to start a conversation with someone you are familiar with, a friend of a friend or if you have something in common (i.e. a common background) than someone carrying weapons and covered in scars who many of my characters would shy away from. You recognise these people because you grew up in the same area or village, went to the same school or college, worked or socialised in the same areas, belonged to the same club or guild etc. If there is no commonality then a good rper would ignore the information. However this more natural aspect of role play is conspicuously absent from PS if not even frowned upon in some quarters. It is not my intention to advocate people writing elaborate background histories, but feel that no background introduces many weaknesses into the roleplay envronment.



angstrom

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2009, 02:58:08 pm »
Well, Sarras, I wouldn't say I was a self-conscious women, but I am prepared to admit when I'm clueless  ::|

I thought you were showing your dislike of female characters physical descriptions which could be summed up as 'cleavage on legs'

Please, re-educate me if I'm wrong though!  :D
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Timmothy Perriwinkle

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2009, 04:50:39 pm »
Can't women playing at home have a character with a deep, well rounded personality, interesting traits, useful skills and an attractive physique?

You might not like it, Sarras, but you make your choices - let other people make theirs

The thing is there, that's not a choice. Choice implies taking something at the expense of something else, what you're suggesting is people take everything and make the god-character with no flaws.

The prime example of this is Kaerli (yes, I'm going to blatently state a character. No point skirting around it). She's basically the strongest character in all of Yliakum, even stronger than the gods, a master of magic. Wears full armor, carries over 9000 weapons and still "looks surprisingly pretty"? No, she doesn't. She looks like this:

http://fc00.deviantart.com/fs17/f/2007/195/3/2/angry_muscle_women_by_xbgmusf.jpg

RP is only fun IMHO if you give your character some flaws. You can't have everything, that's no challenge to yourself, and also not fun.

But meh, I simply don't RP with Kaerli, because it's flat-out boring. If people find it fun to, it's their own prerogative.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 06:21:05 pm by neko kyouran »


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Lhaa

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2009, 06:30:50 pm »
ROFL Timmothy...


@ Ceraline: I'm not really sure I do understand what do you mean, but I will try to reply none the less (and make my point clear ;) mostly using my main character as an example (which doesn't mean it's an example to follow, just how do I deal with it and an easy way for me to put it down).

However equally unusual is finding people wearing the same clothes and adornments, day in and day out, no matter what their environment. I guess we should not always point at the nearest dwarf for the strange odours :D.

That's why I don't describe blouse and skirt in detail and remark she usually wears them, nobody said they are the same blouse and the same skirt every day. ;)
Besides that, it's usually handy to have a "Current status" bit in a description to include things that are happening at the time other chars see yours. If you check in events or any other parties, Lhaa is almost always wearing a gown instead of her usual garments (forget now what mechanics allow you to do now, this will likely change in the future and maybe we will no longer need to write it down).
You can also use this to explain that your character is carrying a heavy bag, or has a bruised eye, whatever.

Whilst it is correct that I should not see you brandishing your weapon in public, the only people who will know your favoured weapon are people who already know you or have seen you fight. Unless I am put into a situation or intend seeing your weapon in action I have no real interest in knowing about it in any detail. This can be easily catered for with a simple shortcut whenever you brandish the weapon, rather than in the description.

Not really. Any character should easily be able to tell Lhaa carries a couple of galkards (unless it's a blind one ;), but you could be next to my char for days, weeks, maybe months, and you would never see her unsheath them. So unless I include her belt and sheathes in the description there is no way you would know she carries them so obviously.

However it is not my intention to criticise anyone in particular for employing such descriptions though be aware that any long and over-elaborate description can be equally as tedious and irrelevant to read for others as you may find character backgrounds.

That's a good point, and I'm probably guilty of making a too long description for some of my characters. I sometimes find myself skimming through a long description myself and trying to find where the relevant things are. But that mostly happens when I'm too busy typing to read it. Sometimes I have nothing better to do to go around checking people's descriptions and I enjoy reading them no matter how long they are.
But it's not that I find character backgrounds tedious to read. I just think the description is not the place to put them in. First, because there is no way my character will know any of this thus yes, for me it's irrelevant when it comes to playing. Second, it's much better to read one here or in a guild forum, where it can be expanded far better than in the small description window and made a good read. See this thread for a good example: Zephan and Calluna's tale.

I still don't understand why a lifestory is better for you but let me go back to the bruise example above to try to explain why I (we?) don't think it is.
Let's say your character got in a bar brawl the last night because somebody spilt his/her/kras drink. He/she/kra was smacked and got that bruised eye and you include it in your "current status" bit of the description.
Now, why would you want to tell people there that the bruise came from a tavern brawl when a drink was spilt? There is no way any character would know where's it come from (unless they were witnessing it) and they could think it's because of any other reason like I don't know, having falled down a staircase, having a very possessive husband (or wife :p), a brothers fight, a fight for a man/woman, etc. What's good of cutting down people's imagination (thus almost unavoidably narrowing the character's one) telling them where did the bruise come from?
You can try to do this and see how do other characters react to it. The ones who care for your character will ask what happened. Some others (like your character sounded like) will shy away, some others will simply ignore it. You can get plenty of different reactions from this other than the "Who split your drink last night?" you expect or nothing at all.

About the 20 questions thing, there is no need of that. You can talk to somebody for hours and get to know nothing about their past or their lives other than their superficial personality. You aren't forced to have a curious character, shying away from people is just as legit as running to them eagerly as long as that fits your character. But to find out if a character is the type of person your char would hang out with, your char needs to interact with it first, be it by watching him/her/kra or by talking. And I'm sure you can tell what kind of person is it after the first 10 lines, even if there is none of the 20 questions involved or a long background story that tells nothing to your character about the person it is in front of.

bloodedIrishman

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2009, 06:40:33 pm »
On female characters something similiar to this is common, "Her features are perfect" or "without flaws".
I await the "her body is curvacious" followed by "whilst her rump booty-licious".

weltall

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Re: The Correct Description
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2009, 07:51:36 pm »
As for the main reason why I don't even read a description that has a story in it; it simply spoils my fun.
I don't want to read whatever somebody has done in the past, I'd rather interact with that character and have my own character find out before I know what do I have to ask for to get it out of him/her/kra. It's taking chances of RP from me, thus I dismiss whatever says there and go ahead with my ignorance.
If the concept of background stories in description was to take over other areas of the game we'd probably stop roleplaying at all and come to the forums to write. In the end, why play the character at all if you can just explain people whatever you want to? There is no need for interaction, and is much easier to grind IG while you write here than to stop grinding to roleplay. ;)

i disagree with this personally but well to anyone his choice so just put the story on the end making it visible and the problem is solved. plus next release will have two additional tabs ooc and cc. one is for ooc info so we can remove them from the main description and one is specifically for the char creation data, additional events you want to add about your life and description based on factions. note this last tab appears only with nature intuition