amd vs intel (flamewar free zone)

[steuben]

i've been working with my compy for a while now and think it might be time to upgrade. i've been running with intel for the past while. but looking at some of the prices on amd are piquing my interest. but how to compare amd and intel?

i know that clock speed doesn't work. iirc for a given clock amd is faster.

but intel run cooler. at least from some of the few bits i've been able to glean, but that was from about 7 years ago. so things have probably changed.  now heat isn't a primary concern. but given the thing will be about 10 feet from my head when i sleep. so it might be an issue, but is also something that can be tweaked a little bit.

for reference i'm coming off a 2.4 intel celeron. so i guess something with roughly equivalent horse power on one of it's cores.

now i'm looking for two things. rough guidelines and any decent articles.

for example something like http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/577

[ThomPhoenix]

The best way to make a decision about this is to check what budget you have, and then to check some benchmarks to see what CPU has the best "bang for buck" at that price level.
My latest PC has an Intel Core 2 Duo 2,6 Ghz, simply because it was the fastest CPU for the best price at that time. My previous PC had an AMD because that one was the fastest that my budget allowed then.

Forget Intel vs. AMD, let the benchmarks and the prices decide

For example, tomshardware.com says that the best $100 CPU of this moment is the AMD Athlon II X4 620. The Athlon II X3 710 is a bit better at gaming and has the same price, but is less good at multitasking.

[steuben]

right so how do i tell i'm taking the fastest off the shelf? raw clock speed doesn't work anymore.

[Rigwyn]

Depends on what resources you need.

If your running a web server you may benefit greatly from having multiple cores or processors. ( ie dual quad core cpus ) more then you would from increased clock speed alone. If your running something that hammers your hard drive then getting a box with the latest scsi tech or a solid state drive might make more improvement than a faster cpu would.

[neko kyouran]

If you're building a new computer for primary gaming use, its not you start with the CPU, but instead you start with the video card or cards you want to use, either nvidia, or radeon.  You then select the mother board that you want that is the best compatible with that card, then get the cpu that matches that socket.

That is how it has been traditionally done.  However, this is all changing with the release o the i7 cpu series from intell.  If you're going to build a new computer within the next 6 months, you'll want to wait for the i7 cpu's to go retail.  There isn't anything out there that's better than those and the cost for them isn't that expensive depending on the version you choose to get.

That's just my opinion anyways.

edit:

if you're thinking more along the lines of a cheaper alternative,  here's the compy i made a year or so back.  http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=33567.0

those same parts now a days are far less expensive and this beast still hasn't met something it can't handle.  only upgrade i've done to it since first putting it together is scrap vista for win7 RC.

[ThomPhoenix]

right so how do i tell i'm taking the fastest off the shelf? raw clock speed doesn't work any more.

You don't look at *any* CPU specifications. None.
Many websites perform benchmarks (google it) which compare how CPUs perform in (near) real-world tests. So you google "CPU benchmarks" and look for the CPU with the best benchmark results for a certain price. That's it

Neko here is clearly an i7 fan I see. And I have to agree that the i7 is very fast and very cutting-edge. It's not cheap however. There are many CPU's out there with better price/speed rates.

For more info about CPUs, benchmarks and stuff like that, read this:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/best-gaming-cpu,review-31706.html

[neko kyouran]

what can i say?  i loves me a good i7

[Marqsaynt]

In my recent experience and in overly simple terms; if you are looking for the best bang for your buck (budget) go with AMD, if performance (and bragging rights) is more important snag a nice Intel i7.

Keep in mind going with an i7 may drive up the price of other components as well since the mobos and flashy DDR3 memory is usually a quite a bit more pricey. Also, if you are looking at it from a gaming perspective, as I recall, not too many games at the moment are optimized to take full advantage of the quad cores but, this obviously is/will change and having a nice quad core may make your new system more future proof and upgradeable.

A few random tips that you most likely already know about building a system in no particular order:

1. Get a nice power supply! A cheapy PSU usually is going to be less efficient, most likely no where near what it is really rated in power, and quite possibly could fry your entire system if it goes out. Bad news all around.

2. Make sure your mobo has all the connections you need, particularly if the case you get has plugs for firewire, eSata, etc. (seems obvious but still happens to the best (and worst ) of us)

3. Check that the fancy memory you get is good to go with your motherboard... sucks not getting the best clock speeds or having an unstable system just because your motherboard doesn't support a certain brand.

--

Like others have already said, the video card is a huge choice but luckily Nvidia and ATI seem honestly equivalent to me at the moment... Nvidia used to have an edge but ATI has made up a lot of ground. Really can't go too wrong with either brand as long as you get a nice one. ATI may have a slight advantage innovation wise (GDDR5, 40nm) but, Nvidia has equally well performing cards and has a reputation for a bit more stable drivers.

All waaaaay more information than you asked for but, figured I'd share what I learned from when I built a nice budget gaming system a few months back. Have funny putting your new system together! I sure enjoyed building mine.

EDIT:
P.S. I second any recommendation for Windows 7, it has impressed me.   

[LigH]

Tech ARP: Desktop CPU Comparison Guide

Any questions left?
__

Ah, well ... technical details only. No benchmarks.

[steuben]

a couple. but in my travels i think i've settled on this fellow http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4438239&Sku=A79-0720, the AMD Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition. its got the power for my price point.

which then lead me to this mobo http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4624697&Sku=B450-2400 Biostar TA790GX A3+. but ièm still looking

but marqsaynt brings up a point. i used to know it... but matching ram to the mobo and the proc.  though iirc it is more to the mobo. it the speeds. for the most part i think the ram will dial down to match the best the mobo has. but i donèt want to speed on the fastest ram to find my mobo is choking it down.  how do i match that?

[neko kyouran]

I'm a bit busy atm, so later on I'll take a closer look at your links, but since I see you linked to tigerdirect, I'll simply say that you should search new egg or other reputable sites for those same parts, as they are probably being sold cheaper on them.  I personally buy nearly everything form newegg simply because they are great when it comes to DoA returns.  Great customer service makes up for a small higher price in my book, but generally, new egg has whatever I'm looking for the cheapest price, so the great CS they have is just a bonus.  

edit:  had more time to look at the mobo.

Code: [Select]

Memory Supported:  800MHz DDR3
                     1066MHz DDR3
                     1333MHz DDR3

Is the type of RAM you'd have to buy.    Just make sure the RAM's clocking speed is either 800, 1066, or 1333 MHZ and the mobo won't have any issues.  anything slower than 800, the mobo prob will give you errors.  anything faster than 1333, and you're just wasting your money, since the RAM chips would only work at 1333. 

In a general sense, if you want to get the most bang for your buck, you'd want to look at 1066 clocked RAM.  but I havent' done research in a little while so there may be some better 1333 clocked RAM now that has a better performance to price ratio than the 1066 clocked RAM generally has.

[Marqsaynt]

In theory what neko is saying is right but in my experience it isn't always that simple in practice. Often either the mother board people, or the memory people (or both) will actually have a list of various models of memory that have been tested and that should work perfectly. At the very least I'd do a little research and try to find other people with a build that uses the same memory/mobo match just to make sure you don't have too many headaches.

Also, keep in mind if you get something like 1333 MHz you will probably have to manually adjust the settings for the memory in the bios. Not too hard once you know what you are doing but it is a good idea to look up the timings you are going to need ahead of time or your computer may be more unstable than a Hollywood starlet.

I've used both Tigerdirect and Newegg before and haven't had problems with either merchant but, Newegg definitely seems to have better prices and if you catch one of their sales you can get a pretty good deal. Depending on where you live in the country though, shipping time may play a part in your decision; Newegg is great for left coasters and (I'd assume) Tigerdirect is more speedy for Midwestern-ers.

Edit:

And just for a price comparison... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649&cm_re=amd_black_edition-_-19-103-649-_-Product     

[neko kyouran]

Good point!  

I use crucial's mobo to recommended memory tester function:  http://www.crucial.com/   Right there in the homepage.  Crucial used to be the best of the best when it came to all things RAM and I'd only ever get them, but past years I've started to use others like gskill.    Crucial's always a bit more expensive, but they again have a great CS team to work with if there's ever a problem.  In general terms, gskill is a pretty solid company all around as well.

Ultimately, when doing this sort of thing, I simply start with a few general choices of parts that I think would work nicely to use as a base and then simply do various searches for benchmarks, reviews, and if there has been any reported issues with the parts and then use that info to make my final decision.  

Keep yourself informed and the amount of work put into research now means no headache later on. ;-)