Wipe y/n?

[Sarras Volcae]

Ok, ok, I know I'm posting a lot, but whatever. I just want to make a suggestion about the website as a whole.
This information: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=14529.0 should be very visible on the account creation page or the 'about section' of the main website. It seems to me that there was no warning for players about this unless they visit the forums and read very carefully. Also, the philosophy of this post is spot on, in my opinion.

the fact that this game is in alpha or beta or whatever should have made it clear you're a tester. you'd have to be pretty thick not to have realized this before downloading.

What I meant with loss of empathy is the fact I spent hours in a very amusing game knowing people and making bounds, training hard and fairly to fit in the scene and all of the sudden everything is gone, and the worst thing is nobody cares about our opinions and even call names for it.

a very amusing game. there's your answer. it's a game, not real, unwad your panties... you'll still know all those people after the wipe, no reason to worry. and it's pretty obvious that the devs care or they wouldn't have made this thread. the reason you're called names is because you let selfish emotions take control of your decisions.

If there's nothing left to do, well at least it should be included it as part of Yliakum Mythos like the cyclical destruction and restoration of the world.  That way won't be misunderstandings in the future with new or old community members.

the wipe is completely ooc, it won't affect rp or your char's history or memory or anything.

Along with wiping characters and levels, they should wipe the levelling system and not bring it back.

Just give everyone average skills in everything, and leave it at RP.

(just a poke at the PLers)

nOO!

[Under the moon]

People tried to roleplay the day Oja moved as well. The game world has been sitting at the year 750 (or whatever) for 8 years now. Time has not moved.

Roleplays are like stories in many ways. One of those ways is that you can easily rewrite the chapters that conflict with changes to your setting. Be creative.

As for the "I will quit if you wipe because I don't what to restart a character." thing a few of you are on about, what will you do once you quit? Go to another game and start a new character, or stop roleplaying all together? Does not make any sense at all when you look at it that way, does it? There are some people who start new characters all the time, level them up to how they want them, then start another character to do the same when they want a new storyline. I have seen others who just decide to delete their old character and restart it. It is not a big issue, really, especially if the training method will be changed in the future. Some of you have already 'pretended' all the grinding you did on mobs to get your baking skills never happened anyways.

Whatever. In short, a wipe will only hurt the roleplaying of bad roleplayers. Good ones will pick up where they left off, adapt, and move on. If a wipe is going to be an emotional trauma to you personally, you should not be playing MMOs.

[Elvors]

People have been saying that a wipe would sanitize the database, in one way or the other (too many dead accounts, invalid data that may cause crashes, etc. etc.)

First, as players, we are in no position to judge how big the problem actually is. Sure, the number of dead accounts is staggering, but does it affect play? Not at all. Sure, we have server crashes, but how would be know it's due to bad data?

Second, I'm a dev in other projects, and have been coding for 20+ years, and my experience has been that as soon as you have data that persists more than a day, you will have a buildup of invalid data.
In the PS context, that means that people will find new exploits, item generation will create invalid items, monsters and players will find paths to invalid coordinates, settings devs will create flaky models or textures, there will be newly broken quests etc. etc. etc.
A reset will just drop the existing invalid data, but it will not keep invalid data from getting into the database. Having invalid data in the database is actually a Good Thing, because it will cause coders to make their code more robust against the inevitable data corruption, including the data corruption that will happen in the post-1.0 time.

Similar arguments hold for the question whether a wipe should be done to "level the playing field", i.e. put all those cheaters and exploiters of bugs long fixed back to the position everybody else is in.
Again, the problem will reappear, and a wipe will cure just the symptoms, not the cause.
(In this case, the cure isn't making the code robust, it's installing monitoring tools that detect cheats, and installing policies to take away the gains from cheats - I understand that all this is currently done manually, but this approach won't scale to substantially higher player numbers.)
Oh, and I don't care whether people got their stats through cheats, developer gifts, or months of grinding. From the perspective of player balance, the end result is the same: one player has his Brown Way skill maxed, and the other has not.

[dragonistrypsis]

hmmm....

while I do understand the needs for a wipe on occassion, I also don't think a wipe for wipes sake is a good idea.
The supposed RP'ers, or the Elitests some have called them, to me are a bunch of godmodders that like to RP that they are the most intelligent, the most knowledgeable, the most powerful in a certain way. Its a bunch of bunk. If you want to RP that way, go to a chatroom. The direct purpose of having leveling stats and skills is to find out what you can do with said levels. If RP is the only thing you care about, then, take away all levels, all crafting, all stats, and give us a padded cell for everyone to go crazy.

Saying one is a Blue Way master without the appropiate stats is godmodding in my opinion.
Saying one is an Avatar of Xiosia without being able to grow a plant or heal the sick is also godmodding.

What we need for you RP'ers is to set the rules of RP and then change the server to fit.
If all you want is RP, then, as I said, no levels. Period, Everyone is either maxed, or everyone is Piss Poor. Either way, its a form of Communism. IE "There are so many bugs and stat padders it makes it unfair for everyone else"
Those that want a wipe seem to all be clamoring for lack of individuality, and resetting to be able to develop a char our own way all over again is just again, another way of whining that you didn't get anything at Xiosiamas.

RP for me is an act of story telling, and being able to act it out, not just words typed on a screen, that's what chat rooms are for. Again, to be able to say something, and to actually be able to do it, are two vastly different things.

It would bother me to go back into the game, everything reset, to have some elitest RP'er come up to me asking me to bow before them because they have something in the Char description saying they are a messenger of Dakruu.

It would bother me to go into a game as a fresh hatchling just new to the world to find out there are no people to look up to, that though we are on different paths, we are still on the same level or close to it.

I bring to an example, Roled Rolak. I do not wish to speak for him, but, I cite him because he, to me, is the purest example of RP for this game, and this scenario.
He came to this world as a young Dermorian, looking up to those that had been in game longer, forging new relationships based on his quest for learning. Short story long, he formed his RP around his abilities, not just saying, I want to be high council member, so, I am going to RP it without actually having experianced it.

The whole concept of RP versus Storytelling, is Storytelling is the concept of something other than what we are or are doing, or what has happened, RP is the concept of what we can do, not what we want to do......(make sense?)


Basically put, a total wipe is bad RP, starting everyone at ground level is Bad RP, no matter what sugar or gold you put on it, underneath, its bad RP.

The other reason against a wipe, for someone like me, who all I've done is play basically a single character since his creation. Granted I have some alts I've used for storage and or RP purposes, is a kick in the teeth for my longevity and loyalty.
I'd like to have at least the option of having some amped stats or my gm only items returned to me.

If a wipe happens, will I be back......most likely, but, count on the fact I won't be talking to much of anyone because I'll be focused back on trying to get my char where I want him. Not where I imagine him to be. That's what DnD is for...... Not to mention, I won't be on that much because its no fun having to grind all over again........

[Socius Rockus]

Not to mention, I won't be on that much because its no fun having to grind all over again........

Well Planeshift is like a game... wait, it's a game and they are supposed to be fun. If Planeshift was a 'game'  based on who grinds the most wins then you would have had some sort of a vage valid point (IMO). Luckily Planeshift isn't just that, it's one of the possible ways to fill your time in it. It also features quests (and some are changed over the course of time and/or added different endings) and of course +- 100 other players with characters with who you can play 
Find the balance in it all and you find yourself (IMC (In My Case)) enjoying the game and gain even some Exp/skillz and cool looty stuff.

But yeah, if all that counts is gaining exp/skillz/loot then you going to be SERVED by a wipe, not to mention THE wipe 
/old _wise_karate_man_mode: Something with, the travel is more important than the goal

[Parallo]

[snip]

This man is totally right. Parallo should never have produced any written material for his guild. At least not untill he had killed a thousand rats to up his sword skill to kill a thousand tefusangs to up his intelligence enough to think. I also think that the Knowledge Seekers should include a mandatory rat and tefusang killing module for all students. Had I the chance again with the Imperial Scholars I certainly would introduce that. I imagine it would be very realistic (not to mention the fun to be had!) and immersive. In the literature couse I attended in Dublin we spend two weeks shooting pigeons. It is a very meditative and productive hobby and I feel smarter for even typing about it.

[Elady]

I think all th peopel who are claiming that a wipe will not affect RP aren't thinking this through very well.  What happens when everyone is  returned to the base level of endurance and strength?  It means your travel distance is greatly limited, unless everyone in the RP wants to spend a lot of time sitting and resting if the RP requires any kind of travel. Since the hard core RP'ers don't grind or level ( at least very much) most RP is going to be limited to a very small area centered around where most of the RP'ers hang out/ This will naturally affect what RP happens and the nature of the RP and in both cases it will limit the RP. As I have said before I think you can kiss the RP locations that are farther out from Hydlaa good bye ( the Stonhead and the Outpost) since how many people will really take all the time to travel to these places on the off chance that someone else might be there to RP with. Since I have put in a lot of time into the Stonehead this will be a bummer if my prediction that the Stonehead will basically die comes true. How much RP is going to happen between Hydlaa and Oja with greatly increased travel times?

A wipe is going to have an affect on RP. Maybe not much for those who basically only hang out in Kada's and make that the center of their RP but at least for a while it will limit the RP options for everyone until people actually go out a level and improve their states so they can go out and travel comfortably  again.

[Aiwendil]

Hehe, you have to see the advantages Elady. All items of the outpost are items in the database, all furniture in the Red Crystal Den are items in the database, all items in the storeroom of the Stonehead as well, the kikiri of the Stonehead is saved in the database, the portals to the guildhouses are saved in the database....meaning, if there is a full wipe there will be no outpost anymore nor a Red Crystal Den or a storeroom for the Stonehead. All items placed in the Stonehead that are not part of the map will be gone as well. The only thing remaining will be the Stonehead in it's basic form...and a lot players mining for platinum to to build up their skills again. I don't see how this harms the Roleplay in the Stonehead...I more think that it's a good chance for you to establish it quickly again. People who don't want to train will stay in hydlaa and all others will be in Gugrontid. Not a bad solution for me, it keeps the incompatible groups separated.

[Mordraugion]

A wipe if we decide to have one, will not be just for the sake of it. A wipe if we have one will be OOC and therefore will not affect RP. A wipe if we have one will remove all the non map items but as usual the GM's and Devs will work their butts off and replace them. If the coders who are actually working on the db decide they need a wipe for whatever reason we will have one.

As one of the few left here who have actually played through a full wipe I just want to say chill, it wont be half as bad as you think, people will still roleplay even if it does take 10 minutes to go from Hydlaa to Oja, you really don't need full stats for most of the RP that goes on, as for the rest I'm sure with a little give n take that'll be fine too.
Lets take advantage of the wipe and get away from the RP nazi's, the PL nazi's and the Stat nazi's and get on with playing.

[Illysia]

The stonehead being wiped is NOT an advantage in way shape or form. It's not completely debilitating but not an advantage. And RP at the stonehead is not solely dependent on text, it is a mixture of the ambiance and the rp which will take a lot of time to set back up again. Not to mention the stonehead is not an niche RP spot, it is meant to accommodate everyone, not just RPers who have been at it awhile, and for that I would prefer to have my cooking things and actual plates of food. Also, the run would in fact hamper the amount of guests we get as well. It not fun to work in an empty tavern. I would really appreciate a hold on any wipes.

And by the way RPing and Leveling are not mutually exclusive. The problem is getting both sides to tolerate each other and behave themselves. Not to mention, I don't see why RPers have to be limited to small pockets on an RP server. There is a whole world and it is meant to be used, not the same people RPing with each other in the exact same place all the time. The only reason my characters don't travel more and RP with more people is because of people having trouble spreading out. RPing with yourself is only fun for so many times, then the arguments just get repetitive.  People need to go back to broader interactions in more places... Goodness, the plaza is only a short walk away for most people and a lot of the time it is empty.

And sorry Mord, RP is not as robust as it used to be. It will take a decent hit, but I admit that is more player fault than wipe fault.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Stop calling each stupid or whiners it isn't helping the discussion.

As to "How do we know it won't happen again?" We don't.

-We've redone the entire quest system
-We've made Platinum harder to get
-We're working on the spell system
-We're about to rework character creation from scratch
-There are a bunch of new traits older characters missed the chance to elect
-Over 900 bugs fixed since last release
-Devs are pretty nearly universally on the side of a wipe

All of that said, we do want to know how the players feel. Following the trend-line, there is more will among the player-base for a wipe now than ever in the past, this colors how devs look at the situation.

[Bajazag]

I voted "no", then I said to myself "hey, won't be that bad", I answered "nah!", then I insisted, so I change my vote to "yes" 

[Illysia]

After Xillix's post, I will concede the need for a wipe to make the way for all of that new stuff but I am still unhappy about the idea... I can already see the work that is going to be necessary just restore the stonehead's set up... I can live somewhat with character reset as most of mine are RP anyway and can get what they had through character creation, But there is going to be a big rebuilding work ahead for Illysia, other stonehead employees, OSP members and and staff,  and gms and devs. 

[Rigwyn]

I don't know how the last wipe was handled .. but I am wondering rp-wise how one should react ?

ie.

if accounts are not deleted.. then how to be explain suddenly being weak and useless ?
if account are in fact wiped then do we assume that our character died ? or do we remake them and play as if nothing happened ?

If our characters would notice the effects of the wipe then for consistency it might be nice if there was an IC explanation for what happened - such as a natural disaster, a change in the crystal, perhaps it was due to some divine action ?

[Elady]

If there is really a need for a wipe in order to further the development of the game then someone from the development team should come on the forum, announce the need for the wipe, acknowledge that lots of people will be upset and hopefully offer some kind of accommodation to people who have been playing a while ( something like for each month you have been playing you get X amount of levels you can use towards leveling either stats or skills). Putting up a poll asking people if they want to see a wipe happen makes it sound like a wipe really isn't needed at this time but some on the development team would like a wipe since it might make life a little easier.

If the poll had gone against a wipe by a wide margin what would happen? The wipe happens anyway and then you really have a bunch of upset players? This just seems to be poor customer relations. Yes I realize wipe needs to happen at some point. Yes I'm not going to be happy when it happens because of all the time I have invested in developing my character. If a wipe has to happen to further the progress of developing the game I can live with it, especially is there is some kind of acknowledgement or thanks to the players ( ie testers).  If a wipes happens just because someone got it in their mind that a wipe would make life easier for the development team and the wipe really isn't necessary and no kind of bone will be given to the players then I'll find it harder to maintain enthusiasm  for the game.