Wipe y/n?

[Orgonwukh]

Wow! The server is up, but this discussion is still going on...
Time for my 2 trias.

I think some are forgetting how much this will SERVE rp. Getting long time plers whose idea of rp is to bully everyone verbally until a fight ensues will be gone to ez...

PLs did not leave to EZ because there is noone to bully (including myself here, PLing my EZ-char was boring without someone to fight). I think all PLers leaving the RP-server will not change a thing. Most of those who disrupt RP OOCly are ignored by RPers. They are actually gone already.

Im lazy, so I voted no.

But I think the wipe should be made right now or before the rlease of version 1.0 

[verden]

Five years ago I could login at any time and see between 50-120 people in game. Now I can login and see 50-120 people in game. The online numbers do fluctuate, but the game will not suddenly die even if they reset everything. For every player in this game now, there will be 100 more coming. It is the development team that is important here. In the past there has been less respect from the team to the players, and there were still many players. There always will be. The prevalence of other commercial games with rancid communities will guarantee this going forward. Get mad at me if you like, but the players are not as important as the software or the development team. That is just a simple fact. We are all replaceable. How about when dueling was changed a couple of years ago? That change inspired many to quit the game, proclaim that the game would die, rant against the team on the forums, create petitions asking for it to be changed back... and now, hardly anyone remembers and the impact of that change has primarily been forgotten.

[Mordraugion]

Well done Verden, couldn't have said it better myself

[Illysia]

Five years ago I could login at any time and see between 50-120 people in game. Now I can login and see 50-120 people in game. The online numbers do fluctuate, but the game will not suddenly die even if they reset everything. For every player in this game now, there will be 100 more coming. It is the development team that is important here. In the past there has been less respect from the team to the players, and there were still many players. There always will be. The prevalence of other commercial games with rancid communities will guarantee this going forward. Get mad at me if you like, but the players are not as important as the software or the development team. That is just a simple fact. We are all replaceable. How about when dueling was changed a couple of years ago? That change inspired many to quit the game, proclaim that the game would die, rant against the team on the forums, create petitions asking for it to be changed back... and now, hardly anyone remembers and the impact of that change has primarily been forgotten.

IMO this is only partially true... Yes, the number range is the same as before, more or less, but no it is not in the same concentrations. Before there were more people on at the same time during longer portions of time. Now we have more sparse times. True the dev team needs more respect, but not having the numbers in game cuts down on testing time and thus sets things back. True, dumb MMO people will cause people to leave commercial MMOs, but the lack of similar content in PS will balance out that wave. As was proven by SA (sorry to even bring them up) many can try but few will even succeed in getting into the game to play with the community at large. And as for impacts, maybe that dueling thing wasn't so big, but awhile back, before the release of steel blue I think it was, the server was down for a really long time by more recent laanx standards and ever since then the player concentrations have thinned out. The number range is the same but most of the time you are doing good to 100 people in game during the day. It will likely hit 120 eventually in the day but not for as long a time as it used to be in the past.

[verden]

We will never get the numbers back up until the game is working better than it is now. Resetting the database is an unavoidable necessity to making the software work better and to guarantee that players stay in game and continue playing. I am sorry to be so blunt, but all arguments against the reset amount to people being unwilling to part with what they consider to be their property. Not only am I adamantly for a reset, but I am for doing it again at 3, 6 or 12 month intervals until all problems have been identified and addressed. Allowing the player community to drive this decision making process is unrealistic, the few development team members who understand the program know that this is necessary. I also do not believe that any perks, compensations or rewards should be given for staying through a reset. That is one definite way to contaminate the results of the reset.

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36209.0

[Illysia]

Database cleaning is necessity but regularly wiping it would be better for a privately tested game not one anyone can play. True we aren't playing customers but constant wipes are a bit much. People would for sure not play and some would leave if it looked like anything you do amounts to nothing due to constant wipes. Also, monthly wipes till he bugs are identified and addressed is not necessarily the best way of handling it, especially since it is not likely the bugs will be addressed enough to stop the constant wipes for a long time after they start the wipe cycle.

I doubt the Dev team is allowing players to make the final decision, otherwise they would have said so. This is just an opinion poll. However, I hope the devs don't implement a lot of wipes as that would be really discouraging to remake my character completely every 3 month. I don't have a lot for most of my characters to loose but that would still be very aggravating to not be able to just log on and have my character as she was constantly.

[Rigwyn]

Well if the players don't matter then just wipe weekly.

As a result players will not really take the game seriously and wont care about wipes.
Perhaps this will aide in the development of the game.
For that matter why waste your time telling players ? Just do it.
Wipe without warning - problem solved.

[bloodedIrishman]

I will not apologize for what I said on page 3 of this long and dreary poll. Whining unnecessarily prolongs the necessary. I do not have a desire to list these scary and incorrect new-fangled things called facts. Aside from the poll; those who critique the devs for whatever basis on this thread. Know it is by far easier to criticsize than to be helpful. To some of those who are repeatedly posting new arguments, know what you are speaking of before fighting for it. I am of course, including odd analogies of sexual intercourse and kissing compared to a wipe. Really?.

If you are fuming over this, step back and then think rationally. Now I will post some of my whims.

This will cause me and many others I know to leave forever.
This wipe will be hugely disruptive to the essence of roleplay.
I have to max every magic way to be who I want to be in game.
I will post replies without knowing what I am talking about.
The devs are maniacal control freaks without humanity.

[Note: The red phrases are sarcastic. Know that I use red coloring to show the annoyance it causes me. Know that I am putting a note because I really want others to understand this.]

[verden]

In a normal situation this would a privately game until such time as it went into full release. Attempting to manage unfinished software as a finished product is what has caused many of the problems in this community. The criteria for resetting the database is driven by what is encountered during testing. Stated intervals would simply be more honest and straightforward then saying "sometime" before 1.0, but the timing of those resets would be determined by the results of the testing process. I never said that the dev team was allowing the players to make the decision -- that statement was for the players, not for the developers. As for the characters... once again, you are considering them as your property. The final product is more important than any current testers characters, inventories, skills, stats, guilds, quests or guild houses. I do not see remaking characters as being discouraging, and I never will.

[Illysia]

In a normal situation this would a privately game until such time as it went into full release. Attempting to manage unfinished software as a finished product is what has caused many of the problems in this community. The criteria for resetting the database is driven by what is encountered during testing. Stated intervals would simply be more honest and straightforward then saying "sometime" before 1.0, but the timing of those resets would be determined by the results of the testing process. I never said that the dev team was allowing the players to make the decision -- that statement was for the players, not for the developers. As for the characters... once again, you are considering them as your property. The final product is more important than any current testers characters, inventories, skills, stats, guilds, quests or guild houses. I do not see remaking characters as being discouraging, and I never will.

That's nice but keep mind that other opinions are equally valid whether they affect the final outcome or not. True, not having the game developed without public input does create some pretty big hitches, nevertheless, it being a public game is a fact and will be a fact until the game is closed to the public. Thus, it is nice to take the public into consideration whether it affects the final outcome or not. I concede that sometimes the public is wrong, but not always.

And no, I did not pay for the characters, but they are mine. I put time and effort into developing my characters and in preparing them to start RPs for the fun of the community at large. That takes a great deal of time and effort that is better spent elsewhere, so I'd rather not constantly have to reset everything. The game is still meant to provide a measure of fun, otherwise we'd have no way of offering input at all, so I don't think it is simple a matter of only worrying about the finishing part of developing. I'm sorry but this is a continuous project and always will be. Even if we reach ver. 1.0 soon, there is always more to do so we might as well have fun along the way.

[Timmothy Perriwinkle]

Well if the players don't matter then just wipe weekly.

We're testers. And therefore have to test the higher levels too.

[Socius Rockus]

Those damn wipes occurring every time I turn around or earned a tria! Fo Real man I mean I can count all the wipes I lived through on a billion fingers! (or in one bit: 0 )

[verden]

Drama, circular logic, red herrings, straw men, bad sentence structure, paranoia and unbridled narcissism ... we have it all in the PlaneShift forums! That was a good one, Socius! I will stand by the development team, no matter what their decisions are. I am done, I thank you all!

[Timmothy Perriwinkle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TylvUGJIi_w

[neko kyouran]

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=18077.0

search for threads around that time frame.  That was the date when we performed "the great wipe" to kick off the migration to the CB client series from the MB series.

From what I have seen thus far, this new client series will be as great a jump as it was during the transition back then.  History repeating itself.


side note;  4+ years ago already?  O.o  /me reminiscences about yesteryear and the days gone by.