Poll

Do you think we're ready for a wipe?

Yes
No

Author Topic: Wipe y/n?  (Read 77072 times)

neko kyouran

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #195 on: November 10, 2009, 09:29:34 pm »

Question: how is effort of fixing bugs compared with wipe and rebuild everything ?

- Aldo

There have been many a bug or two over the years that while they were fixed, caused damage to both data stored in the DB and other factors like bloating the player economy for prices of ingame goods and services to ridiculous levels that simply can't be fixed without a full reset of everything to put things back into some type of order that will allow game mechanics to be tweaked to keep a better economy in the long run.  We're not talking about one small issue that did this.  We're talking about years and years of things all building off of each other to get it to this point where the majority of people involved in the development of this game believe it is time to start clean now that many of these issues have been fixed.

Wipes aren't something to be taken lightly.  And everyone, on both sides of the table realize this.  It's why the use of wiping the slate idea has been put off for as long as it has.  As I pointed out a few pages back, it was August of 2005 when the last real wipe took place.  That's quite a long time ago after all.  Since then, the dev team has tried to develop the game the best they could without having to cause major issues to the players along the way through the means of tweaking leveling requirements, the cost of goods, the ease of ability to do certain actions, etc. and so forth. 

And that may be all and good, but as I stated, there are simply certain things that can't be dealt with unless we consider using a clean slate to do it with.  No one likes to see all their hard work just magically vanish.  I have some really old characters I will lose due to a wipe.  Many fond memories made on them.  Many from a time, where common names in game were LordBug or Frisky, etc, that simply wouldn't fly as an appropriate name on the RP server now a days.  I can see your side as to why you would not want to lose these things.  But for the betterment of the game and project as a whole, in order to keep moving things forward, there comes a time when you must move on and forward.  Now that the game mechanics have been fleshed out far more than they have ever been in the past, I am on the side that thinks now is a good time to reset everything back to a clean state.  Start fresh, and see how things develop in game.  :)

As someone mentioned WoW, there is a huge difference between it and PS to the point where its like the old saying of trying to compare apples to oranges or some such.  WoW is a completed project that you must purchase to use, and as such, you expect some ground ideals as far as what they owe you as a user of their project, one of those being that once you make a character and play for awhile, it'll still be there if you decide to take a break and then come back later.  PS, on the hand, is a project still in its infancy, yes even all these years later, and put right out front, players are told this, and that as it is in the development stages, there will be from time to time a need to perform data resets, but they again, will be done, on as truly necessary.

To those that are worried that if we wipe everything now, that everything you do a month from now will be lost in another wipe performed then, so why bother even doing anything at all:

Well, I point back to the track record of the project and how many times we've had wipes thus far.  It speaks pretty much for itself.

Stats

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #196 on: November 10, 2009, 09:41:12 pm »
If a wipe happens without any sort of "compensation" (i.e. skill retain) for those of us who've spent countless hours training both in battle skills and the painful learning of a craft, I will most likely leave the game.  Early on, I joined a guild that was immensely helpful in getting me through the challenges of developing a character who could finally defeat a clacker, then a tefusang, then the mighty trepors, and ultimately the more challenging beasts in game.  Having to go through that long grinding process is not something I want to redo.

Lately I have spent an enormous amount of time learning dagger crafting.  This is not a fun process, but I finally have some reward in being able to occasionally produce a Finest dagger.  To have this thrown away?  I can't even imagine, knowing how long it takes now, wanting to go through the process again.  I do have a great deal of fun doing RP with some in the game, and while it is true that that aspect would remain post-wipe, I would again be a weakling, needing to spend a great deal of time either digging or collecting rat eyeballs just so I could become strong enough to not be felled by a rat.

Please don't wipe.  As a developer/dba myself, I imagine there must be some way of preserving at least some aspect of the characters' skills.  Granted, it would take some effort, but I think those of us who've spent many hours developing our characters would appreciate it.

Thanks,
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Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #197 on: November 10, 2009, 09:51:42 pm »
People's stats are also tainted via exploit cash.

It is not simply devs, gms, and noobs that are voting in the affirmative for a wipe. There is no evidence for such a conclusion, it's specious to make that claim.
Devs and gms are often also players and stand to lose their characters also.

aldo

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #198 on: November 10, 2009, 09:56:06 pm »
Quote
There have been many a bug or two over the years that while they were fixed, caused damage to both data stored in the DB and other factors like bloating the player economy for prices of ingame goods and services to ridiculous levels that simply can't be fixed without a full reset of everything to put things back into some type of order that will allow game mechanics to be tweaked to keep a better economy in the long run.  We're not talking about one small issue that did this.  We're talking about years and years of things all building off of each other to get it to this point where the majority of people involved in the development of this game believe it is time to start clean now that many of these issues have been fixed.
sounds like RL economical crisis ...

Akkaido Kivikar

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #199 on: November 10, 2009, 10:58:04 pm »
I'm not a newb, I voted yes.

To all of you who voted NO:

Rather than saying it's because of your stats, please come up with a solid evidenced argument about how NOT having a wipe will BENEFIT PLANESHIFT from a DEVELOPMENT point of view. So far you've only come up with the following arguments:

I will lose my stats, skills, rare items and Q300 weapons, and money. I don't want that. It does not benefit me or my friends.
We all stand to lose. Loss is part of life. At the end of the day the argument is not how beneficial a wipe is to you personally, but to PS as a whole.

RP on Laanx will be delayed as we retrain our skills, stats, and make money.
That's not a bad thing! Just because Kada-El's tavern will be quiet for a few weeks doesn't mean we should drop the wipe. The RP would return as players feel their stats match their character. Within a month or two RP will be thriving again. Probably even earlier.

In my opinion as a player, the benefits of a wipe for development don't outweigh the destruction of my stats, skills, rare items, Q300 weapons, and money.
It's not meant to outweigh. The sheer fact that it will help develop the game should suffice. If the devs think it is time, they will have already factored the cons for players into it.

So, come up with a precise, evidenced argument.


Rihes

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #200 on: November 11, 2009, 01:44:13 am »
The only real question is, who is going to RP the wipe? Are you all going to pretend your old characters never existed, or are you going to simply recreate a few and run on as if it never happened.

verden

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #201 on: November 11, 2009, 01:55:14 am »
No point to roleplaying a reset. We have been at day one in PlaneShift forever. There is no roleplaying the reset. There is only roleplaying. Time has been standing still in game for years. Time will not officially start in game until the release of version 1.0.

Xanthan

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #202 on: November 11, 2009, 04:57:04 am »
How bad is this exploits problem?  I am dismayed to hear that the game has become so hugely warped by people exploiting bugs.  I haven't been, nor has anyone I know. Until reading this thread I was not aware that the game had been so wildly warped by exploiters as to make a wipe necessary.  I had no idea that the economy had been destroyed or that the majority of players are cheaters who didn't deserve the stats, skills, and trias they have, or (if so) that this is ruining the game for the rest of us.

Who knew?  I didn't.  It makes me want to leave such an awful community, clearly not deserving of the participation of honest players regardless of if there's a wipe or not.

But wait!  Perhaps as I haven't encountered any such players, the problem is not really so bad.  So tell us truely, is this just hype or has the game truely been ruined by such behavior?  Because I've seen no evidence of it.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 04:58:51 am by Xanthan »

weltall

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #203 on: November 11, 2009, 05:20:59 am »
about 40 people abused a money exploit recently.

Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #204 on: November 11, 2009, 05:22:32 am »
It isn't hype, we're talking billions and billions. Over the years probably nearly a trillion.

verden

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #205 on: November 11, 2009, 06:25:03 am »
And thats just the money.

Illysia

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #206 on: November 11, 2009, 05:41:19 pm »
 ::| Did someone mention to these people that there is nothing to spend that much money on?

Oh well, I suppose it has to go, but a money wipe could take care of that. I remember that much from the last time one happened. ;D

Timmothy Perriwinkle

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #207 on: November 11, 2009, 05:57:32 pm »
If money was the only issue. But as previously stated, it's not.


[12:05am] XilliX: I <3 you that much

Sardoan

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #208 on: November 11, 2009, 05:59:44 pm »
Wyh a wipe? make crafting twice that hard and you loose 30 of the 90 players. Make magic 2 times harder and you loose 30 players more. think a wipe is unneeded.  We have max 100 players on at one time and you wantto remove the 50 plyers that  arealways on?

Xanthan

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Re: Wipe y/n?
« Reply #209 on: November 11, 2009, 06:01:25 pm »
If it is known that they did this exploit, why weren't they banned and the characters deleted?