Author Topic: Gold Prices  (Read 9398 times)

Enlightened

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Gold Prices
« on: December 20, 2009, 01:00:41 pm »
Hello everybody!
i noticed that Gold prices are cut to half!
a "finest gold stock" is 10k tria down
it is not really good for buisness.
was wondering if that is a bug!!

thorgrin

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2009, 02:54:30 pm »
Simple economy. The law of offer and demand
No Platinum, so miners mine gold
More gold but the same number of demand (buyers). Price drops.
There are lots more of people offering gold, merchants buy them at the lowest price, and miners begin to sell gold at lower prices; Slowly, prices drop.
"If the mine is mine, it should only be mined by my miners. If my mine is mined by miners that aren't mine, my mine is no longer mine."

Enlightened

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2009, 03:02:10 pm »
i did not know that NPCs follow (offer and demand)
these "complex" economy rules are more realistic!! wasn't aware of such an update !

Nairan

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2009, 03:03:49 pm »
nope thogrin... platinum has killed the economy and now those who really do craft and sell (not pled) have a big problem..

weltall

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2009, 05:02:18 pm »
the engine has support for economy changes (only in runtime it would reset on server crash or reboot) but this isn't the case, gold was lowered because it was just too pricey making it a second platinum.

-stf-

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2009, 10:22:19 pm »
I don't think it's so, all prices went down, even for platinum or silver. With current prices the prices should be linear with quality, so 1535 for Q300 gold and 768 for Q150, but it's only around 175 for Q150 gold ingot, that is too low, because even at level 55 in metallurgy you work about 20 minutes or more to get 5 ingots from 20 over Q250, which is 767 tria. The same is for silver and platinum, prices are too low for quality under 200. With linear prices with quality it would be good even with price 1535 for Q300 gold ingot (and relative prices for other metals).
My character Delrid worked for 2 days to get 20 gold ingots with quality 260 - 300 to gain only around 25k Tria? That is not fair at metallurgy level 55. With linear pricing it could be about 50k in one day, which is more fair, I think. How can guild gain 10 millions Tria (at least I heard the price is around this amount) with so low prices. If I calculate 5 people online per day for 4 hours (and only 2 or 3 with proper metallurgy level), then I see gain for all around 50k, and where are money for training? With broken NPC server where creatures are very hard to kill even for experienced players and some key NPC missing it's not easy to gain enough.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 10:39:33 pm by -stf- »

Nairan

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2009, 10:31:45 pm »
weltall: maybe but all mined plat and those who mined gold used it for crafting.but gold is now not even much worthy mining for sale sice way is long and quality factor is a big thing.
making q300 gold stock is hard. (with melting casting at least)

Maju

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2009, 11:28:27 pm »
I understand, and correct me if I am wrong, that there is no automated "market" that balances prices at NPCs, right? All this inflation and deflation is generated then by dev's financial engineering, what surely has the defect of over- or under-reacting and specially reacting always too late.

My impression now is that nearly nobody mines (because it's become a too tiresome work for the produce) and that might mean that players do not have enough trias in their pockets (specially as training is so expensive), so they can afford less "luxuries" like good weapons and such, detracting from the profit of artisans.

Low base incomes is, as far as I can see, not good for crafters, who have to lower prices maybe, nor for gameplay, as training is heavily limited by its proportionally higher cost.

I understand that a game and virtual economy like this one needs sufficiently good basic incomes, that allow normal players (lowbies, midbies) to spend comfortably for their needs without excessive work (they are players after all, not real life workers who need a salary not to starve or go into mendicity). I understand that there must be some balance too but it's surely better for the system to be somewhat generous than the opposite.

Ideally I'd suggest an automated market engine, that would compute all transactions and be fine-tuned to keep an optimal economy based on real-time (or almost) adjustments between prices and basic productivity. Private transactions should also account though this may be highly impractical to implement, so guess that using NPC market evaluation would be a proxy decent enough, at least for precious metals.

This, as I say is just a suggestion for hypothetical development.

But another thing to balance the economy should be to fine-tune the availability of minerals and other items of some value (some skins?, what else?). Why are gold and diamonds so expensive? Because they are rare and you have to strive to find any. Why is iron cheap? Because it's one of the most common ores of Earth. So you should be able to dig and sell iron at a speed maybe 10 or even 100 times and at almost any location.

This natural correlation does not exist in PS but seems to be central to the value of things, at least at the simplified fraction of raw materials. Doing basic jobs as iron mining should be minimally profitable (easy access mine, geting an ore per try even at lowest levels...), reasonably decent price that pays for the work, if nothing else. Nobody is going to do a job that does not pay, not if they can just sit at a virtual tavern driking virtual beer that costs nothing instead...

Instead gold (or diamonds, or platinum when it existed) are almost not harder to get than iron. And they should be, however in a well pondered system.

The key piece is the producer-consumer, the working class, so to say. What does need one from real life? Food, clothes, shelter and some caprices, including leisure time. What does a PS citizen need? Training, armor, weapons... tools and materials if (s)he is an artisan. However nothing of all that is strictly necessary to play, so they are more in the sector of "caprices". For this reason you need some "welfare state": you need that people finds their way into the basic layer of the economy easily and without too much effort. They should be able to afford several hours of questing, training, maintaining weapons, etc. with not more than half hour of work at the mine. Roughly speaking but that's how it is: they economy will only flower if there is enough purchasing base, which is not to different to the virtual GDP.

Not sure if it helps or if it's clear enough but I needed to say this.

Sarva

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2009, 11:53:47 pm »
Hey folks the prices paid by the smiths for crafted weapons has gone up. So has the prices paid for other crafted items. I know of a way to make a lot more tria doing something other than mining for gold.  The new lower prices for gold are opening up possibilities for earning a living in other ways. With higher prices for crafted good it opens up some possibilities. Like maybe crafters of swords and shields being more willing to pay for iron and coal so they can concentrate more in crafting. Hopefully there will be some new skills coming along soon that will also pay a decent amount and give even more possibilities for earning trias instead of just mining.

-stf-

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2009, 01:33:54 am »
Hey folks the prices paid by the smiths for crafted weapons has gone up. So has the prices paid for other crafted items. I know of a way to make a lot more tria doing something other than mining for gold.  The new lower prices for gold are opening up possibilities for earning a living in other ways. With higher prices for crafted good it opens up some possibilities. Like maybe crafters of swords and shields being more willing to pay for iron and coal so they can concentrate more in crafting. Hopefully there will be some new skills coming along soon that will also pay a decent amount and give even more possibilities for earning trias instead of just mining.
The question is how long will stay the prices for crafted items higher, because it can happen for these too. You can work few days on crafting and then you will come to sell them and it can be the same as for ingots and stocks.

Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2009, 04:19:54 am »
This is how balancing works, remember, you asked for it.

Sarras Volcae

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2009, 06:39:12 am »
on a related note: THIS IS A GAME. money should be easy to obtain. this isn't real life. i don't want to waste hours trying to gain virtual money when i could be doing something productive irl. i'd like to train and explore yliakum, but there isn't rly time for exploring either. maybe you think it's more realistic this way. but this is a game. people play it for fun, not boredom.

Illysia

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2009, 06:41:59 am »
An unbalanced economy isn't fun at all.  X-/ I hope any new price changes do help keep the past from repeating itself... The gold rush was a mess.  :o

-stf-

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2009, 01:56:52 pm »
on a related note: THIS IS A GAME. money should be easy to obtain. this isn't real life. i don't want to waste hours trying to gain virtual money when i could be doing something productive irl. i'd like to train and explore yliakum, but there isn't rly time for exploring either. maybe you think it's more realistic this way. but this is a game. people play it for fun, not boredom.
It's also my opinion, I am playing for fun, but when I can't get enough money for training while playing many hours daily, it's not that fun, additionally I don't have time for RP while I need to work 2 days for 4 or 5 hours to gain enough money to buy training for next level (i.e. 8000 for level 25 in magic + 8000 for level 55 in metallurgy - I don't remember exact price but it's around it). With price 380 Tria for Q200 gold ingot it's not too easy to get enough for training, because (at level 55!!!) it's about 5th refining to get quality around this (for max. 2 or 3 ingots from 8) and even more tries to get quality to 225 which is equal to price from old version which was price after first smelting. While it take also time for mining the ore and often not enough space in inventory to carry enough ores at once (I mean weight). I would like i.e. to get enough tria for next training level in 2 hours and rest spend for helping others less experienced people, who can't smelt the ore for themselves, show them the way between cities, teach them how to do something, sitting in tavern and seaking about something (which reminds me the question why I can't turn my head to see what is around me while I'm sitting) or anything else what can be done in free time, which is not easy to have with so unbalanced prices. Standing 2 days near furnace and smelting ores or ingots to get around 30k Tria for training while I level up 2 times while doing this and I need 30k more to train other abilities, is little boring. While the same is with killing creatures, cooking food, crafting weapons (little better prices but still not too much, because low quality weapons can't be disassembled and improved in quality for better prices).

bilbous

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Re: Gold Prices
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2009, 04:48:31 pm »
380 for a q200 gold ingot? ah hah hah hah. might as well make yourself a standard knife, the iron and coal are easier to mine, the knife uses slightly more ore and you will never need to pay large for a weapon, oh and it pays at least as well as that gold ingot. I have never owned a q300 weapon as I feel the player prices are ridiculous, I always have, even for looted weapons. I'll own one if I ever make one and then only until the first repair.

You want to do everything for yourself (as I do) you have to accept a slower pace. Personally I'd think you could stop training metallurgy once you are able to do everything it can do. 55 seems a bit excessive but perhaps not.

This isn't a game it is a game development project, sure you can be content to just play it but all games get boring after a while. At least the devs are trying to fix things up.