Lawless areas (i.e. for trading routes)

[empty_aka]

Hey there PlaneShift community, this is empty_aka from Germany! After i have commenced to like this game and read a lot about it, i got this idea to make trading, traveling and in general being out of range of guards/"police" or anything like that. Well, that's for short, and another thing i like to tell ya briefly: I love that damn game! 

Okay, b2t now. First things first: Why?! The answer is quite simple: It's logical. In every community and society, crime exists. And there some who protect and some who cheat and so on. Watched areas are secure, while others are not secure, cause it should be impossible to secure all areas in our growing world.

The next part is my first example. Imagine a trader, who's on his route with his chaise. He knows the monster spawns and the shortest way to reach the designated town. There would be no risk and that's not the character of PlaneShift, like i consider it. Okay, now imagine the same situation with the gimmick of a "boarder zone". In this zone is no law, everyone is attackable, even if it's a guildmate. I think you all can imagine other examples on your own, there are some more.

These areas/zones/boarders would make another kind of job available. Robbers, organized teams of criminals, Guards, Bodyguards, maybe a messenger, the trader of course and a scout. Maybe some more, but i think you all understand what i mean. Most of these jobs can be done without skills, some need skills and in some cases, a special skill can enhance an ability (i.e. like a further sight for the scout).

This all would strengthen the bands of some players, enhances the access for an advanced economy and getting into business and (i love the following words) it's a nice adventure for a team. You need basics, comrades and a mix of types. On each side of course.

Now to the technical how-to. I don't know how this engine exactly works, but i think you developers already thought a bit further in the PVP section with the arena, or at least i hope you have. To determine the "lawless areas" should be a simple trick for ya, including the jobs and the enhancing skill ect. could be much more laborious, but i think you all can get it done.

I hope i didn't forget something, if i have, just tell me and i will add it ASAP. And excuse my english, it's not the best, but i think you all understand me. Well then, that's all from me for now. Thanks for this great game, with great potential and i hope the dev's will use it correctly!

Best regards, empty_aka 

[Rigwyn]

Yes, having PvP zones like this has been discussed before several times. Just do a search on "pvp zone" or something like that.

I for one was in favor of this and in fact would not mind seeing one however I feel its not necessary. You can role play this instead. Take a look at this link for example. You'll see here the logs from an event where players were literally held up as you described. There are also some pictures.

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36370.0

Notice how in this case, since the players were not relying on the game to determine what they could or couldn't do, they had a lot more freedom. Do note that this was a random encounter. It could have happened to anyone.

[LigH]

Indeed, there are (fortunately) roleplayers now and then who play rogues. Sometimes as planned events, even announced ones (across a week or so). -- Creating a PvP area is not even really necessary. We also had a lot of fun with "roleplayed battles" (hard to do well without godmodding and without "eternal defense ping-pong").

And there have also been GM events (e.g. kidnapping Jirosh Mikana in his shop in Ojaveda).

[empty_aka]

Sh**, i knew that i've forgot something, i've searched other terms. Sorry for that, but now we're here and related to your both posts, i'll answer here. It would just be time wasting for others to go from topic, to topic.

It's a rollplaying game, of course it is. But it's a game, never forget this and most people don't need that much freedom. I mean not that much freedom in a Computer game like this MMORPG. It's like bringing many kinds of people together: Some want intense RP, some want just play, some want 30-70, others 90-10, you know? Including this feature won't take the possible RP event away, it just expands the possibilities for less RP performing players. And this only in the dedicated area and even there, the RP can be performed, it's just a matter of a short conversation before engaging and the fight is "real" instead of RP'd. Well, i'll trying to get deeper into that matter or my sight, however you want to call it.

The main sight is the sight of the customer. The customer wants in general a game with rules and freedom. Both in relation and very well balanced. The fact, that you can make RP conversations, events, fights and more RP stuff everywhere and that's the rule #1 is the rollplaying duty, determines much for RP lovers. But what about players who don't want RP that much? And don't tell me, that they should join the Non-RP server. I generally hate it to separate people, even if they're living in different worlds (but that's my personal sight and has nothing to do with PlaneShift). I feel, that RP begins with a simple:"Greetings stranger, what's your designation, that you're traveling that far?", if he just don't want to chat, he would just write:"/me Ignores the nosy mercenary and moves straight away". In every other case, you can imagine the possibilities yourself. This is possible for every other case and it's still a game, where the merchant can be attacked later on by the mercenary or someone else. Cause it could be possible in a RP session too. And it's kinda real and logic.

The second sight, is the sight of the dev's. A game takes a really heavy payload of effort. Of course, they want something back later on. But will the community grow this much to support everything, only with RP? I don't think so and it's just not economic. Pure RP just don't need a computer game, pure RP just needs imagination. A game can use RP every time, it's fun, it's interesting but a game needs more than only imagination. It needs defined rules, possibilities, laws for the community. You could name it "safety", that's why we want to imagine with this game.

And at least clarify one thing: An idea like this won't take away anything, it adds just a possibility. I hope you get my point of view.

Best regards empty_aka

[Rigwyn]

Well, if you want a real fight all you need to do is to  /challenge someone.

   ie.  /challenge Doofus

If Doofus consents then you will be able to duke it out using the game's mechanics. That is what happened in the event that I linked in the previous post. It was a nice mixture of RP and PVP.

Now, say you want more realism, you want to be able to jump Doofus without his consent because having to ask permission is not realistic. In that case, you would simply log onto ezpcusa where other like minded players play. You can RP a little there if you really want but more than likely you'll just get impaled while your typing by someone who doesn't care much for RP.

There is a setting that makes your character automatically accept challenges ( on laanx ). Some players do keep this enabled.

In my opinion it boils down to consent. If you consent to being able to chop each other down at the knees willy-nilly then ezpcusa is for you. If you do not consent to this sort of play then Laanx might be a more palletable choice.

[Earowo]

i dunno how related this is to pvp, but to add to his whole crime thing, is pickpocketing gonna be a skill ever?

[LigH]

Chances are, because it has at all been taken into consideration. It will just be a matter of "when" and "how".

I could e.g. imagine a probability of a system message appearing if the thief failed; and maybe even an option to enable it only on purpose (similar to auto-accepting challenges), to protect newcomers who are not yet rich at all -- at least on a Roleplaying Server, (IMHO) it should be a roleplaying related skill, and roleplaying relies on fairness.

[Geoni]

If a RP fight is consented between two characters, then i say it is ethical that you can harm the other person, but there has to be an equality to it. Example: a big muscleman can punch a puny guy in the face and knock him to the ground, but the puny guy can always kick him where the sun doesn't shine. I think that in RP fighting, both sides should be able to fight.

If a RP fight is not consented between two players, and a character gets hurt/killed, then of course it's God-Modding for the first person to attack.  Here is a really complicated statement that can perhaps simplify things:  IF +   = dead   [ ] THEN   [ ] =  

When it comes to being careful of not God-modding in a RP fight, I think that a God will just kill them by saying /me kills Geoni, and then Geoni has no choice but to die. It doesn't take a "God" to knock somebodies sword out of their hand, and then quickly slash them in the throat killing them, but it takes a good RP'er to let the other player have a chance to grab at your sword after their's was knocked out of their hand, and then so on and so forth. It is a touchy subject imo, but I've been in some RP fights where i felt that i didn't have the chance to retaliate, and it didn't give me the satisfaction i wanted out of the RP.

[Earowo]

Here is a really complicated statement that can perhaps simplify things:  IF +  = dead  [ ] THEN  [ ] = 



its to complaicated...i dont get it lol

[Earowo]

oopsy screwd the quote up...wow i suck again

[LigH]

Did you know that you are able to modify your posts?

[Earowo]

i did not

[empty_aka]

Oh man... Human beings can be so powerful minded and then, they're sometimes slower than a snail. Sorry, but that's for every crying carebear. Further someone seems to misunderstand the things "discussing" and "constructive criticism". Who really read my posts will understand my view. I can challenge everyone, of course, but being in a PVP area, without rules, where everyone can attack everyone is just another different thing, that would give this game another aspect and more... Something special about it.

The trading example was just, maybe someone knows it, an example. If this idea would be implemented, there could be a save route for carebears and a not so save route for those who want to risk something (or course a route of half the way as the carebear route). If a group of rouges caught a single trader and they're gonna make a RP of it, the trader just can run away cause he don't want to loose all his stuff. Where's there the logic? It's a game and if you want something, then you have to risk something.

When a group of robbers attack a trader guarded by group of mercenaries, in a lawless area, both sides knew the risks about it. Of course they will engage the enemy immediately but that's the reason, why there's such an area. Instead they could do some RP before the fight starts. But fairness afterwards will be definitively rare.

[LigH]

Logic, logic ... uuhm ... it is a game, and the game world is supposed to be more satisfying than the real life. Mainly for the traveler who decides to escape the rogues. Not many players really enjoy to lose in a game. Not all players are "good roleplayers" even. Let alone experienced.

Feel elite playing a rogue. Feel elite playing a traveler who surrenders his destiny being robbed by a superiority.

Or be cooperative and contact your victim to get an OOC agreement before the IC raid starts.

You have to decide for you as player as well as for your character.

[empty_aka]

Isn't doing quests right, killing monsters and sometimes players and exploring a world on your own satisfying enough?!

Seriously: Why are you all so afraid of loosing things, loosing battles ect.? Esp. when you have the choice to choose another path??? It seems that some of ya just be awkward.