The NPC Re-factor and You

[Rigwyn]

Its hard to say whether a creature is too hard to correct if we don't know what levels are intended. As a rule of thumb I would expect a creature that is big to be more of a challenge than one that is small. Likewise I would expect an armed or armored creature to be more challenging. I would expect natural armor to be inferior to metal armor.

With this expectation in mind creatures that contradict this logic appear to be out of line. For example, I would expect the Tlokes and Arangmas to be weaker than gobbels, Initiate gladiators, gladiators and Ulbers due to their size and lack of armor and weapons.  If they had a deadly string and were extremely agile then it might be a bit more believable.

Some recent observations.. ( not necessarily complaints )

My relevant stats - 50 Sword, 30HA, Armor was plate, some new, some about 1/2 worn out. str,agi,end at 200, q290 sabre, q290 short sword
In most cases I used a bloody stance and fought in place ( no dancing around )

Dark Rogue in laanx dungeon ( first right on the way in ) seemed to be a reasonable challenge.
I got him half way down before I died just fighting toe to toe..

Treppor Warrior in the arena seemed to be unusually strong. Its a little hard to believe that a creature with such an awkward looking body could post such a threat. Fighting toe to toe I had to heal myself half way through before chopping it down.

Initiate Gladiators seem to be too easy. Perhaps its meant to be that way ? These were one shot kills.  I do like the fact that there are more weak npcs for less trained players. Also the variety is much better.

Thunder Clacker seemed to be a bit more resistant to attack than one would expect. It was also able to get some hits on me if using bloody stance. with a more defensive stance it did not get though. Was using a pair of 10/50 swords with 1.5 delay. What I'm saying is that I'm surprised that it held up the way it did. Not sure if this is intended or not.

[LigH]

I am not really surprised that a Trepor Warrior is deadly strong, and the Trepor Queen as quest related opponent seems to require a group or a very advanced mage. The generic Trepors in the arena instead seem to be "as usual", and almost a little weak.

But I am really surprised that a Tefusangling - which is meant to look weaker and smaller - is much stronger than a bigger Tefusang (as happens in the sewers under Kada-El's).

And I am surprised that Tloke and Arangma are as deadly as they appear ... true, some Arangma are supposed to have fatal poison. But they are just insect or spider like creatures, and a usual chitin exoskeleton is probably not as resistant as specifically a clacker housing.

The Coamti is not even included in the "Selected Beasts of Yliakum"; so I have no idea if they are supposed to have a rock hard armor.

[kaerli2]

stats/skills/weapon:
200 all phys, 150 wil, 120 int, 90 cha.  100 sword, 60 la, 2x worn (q280/289) finest SS (armor doesn't matter in this case), lvl24 BrW

no buffing items or magic buffs

bloody stance

mob:
Imago Consumer (BDroad2, approx pos 309,19,445)

problem:
blades don't leave a scratch, but Brown Way (Flying Stones) works just fine

additional issue (not specific to a given mob):
monsters have no passive HP regen, so are very vulnerable to being trapped/pinned/confused into not being able to reach the attacker then burned down with spells over a prolonged period of time

[Shoraal]

Okay... some new input...

AGI 99
STR 72
END 68
WIL 81
INT 45
CHA 52

Melee 16
LA 10 (full suit Leather)
Red Way 11, Brown Way 9

used: Melee, Rock Armor, Electrotouch, occasional Flame Spire

Mob: Sewers, Rogue close to Gorbiak

Battle: I won (using agressive Stance btw - seems to do damage faster; I suffered damage in bloody, but not in agressive... yet, it took eternal, this guy seems to be a tank, although he does not look like it.


Mob: Sewers: Tefusang(s)

Battle depends. One Tefu I could kill slowly, but without it damaging me (normals stance).
Another would have kiled me if I had not run.


Mob: Clacker(s):

Battle: Works. They take about two castings of Electrotouch, but die eventually.

[Bonifarzia]

It would be a good thing to have some creatures with spell resistance or other protective mechanism against offensive magic.

The changes in physical damage absorption of some creatures lowered the effectiveness of close combat compared to spell casting, and the recent changes in the mobs initial attack delay when chasing a target did even more so. Some might argue that magic ways are harder and more costly to train, but the effort to train one way at a certain rank does not seem much higher than training both, a weapon and an armor class at the same rank. I think it is a reasonable change that good timing does not allow you anymore to hunt down arbitrary creatures without ever getting hit. That made it indeed difficult to put things in balance. Now that engaging in close combat implies a certain risk of taking significant damage, I don't see a need for the excessive damage absorption of some creatures. On the other hand, one could keep it like that, add  spell resistance for some of the most dangerous creatures and raise the prices for the corresponding animal parts greatly. Just my suggestions.

And to add some observations as requested ...

Using finest (q290-q300) reinforced battle axes (probably the only reasonable choice of weapon) against a neoten consumer, a good estimate for the minimal axe ranks needed to deal (any) slash damage is about 140 (at agility 200+3, no other buffs).
Maulberlord seems the only mob with a higher physical resistance than neoten consumer.

[Earowo]

It would be a good thing to have some creatures with spell resistance or other protective mechanism against offensive magic.

The changes in physical damage absorption of some creatures lowered the effectiveness of close combat compared to spell casting, and the recent changes in the mobs initial attack delay when chasing a target did even more so. Some might argue that magic ways are harder and more costly to train, but the effort to train one way at a certain rank does not seem much higher than training both, a weapon and an armor class at the same rank. I think it is a reasonable change that good timing does not allow you anymore to hunt down arbitrary creatures without ever getting hit. That made it indeed difficult to put things in balance. Now that engaging in close combat implies a certain risk of taking significant damage, I don't see a need for the excessive damage absorption of some creatures. On the other hand, one could keep it like that, add  spell resistance for some of the most dangerous creatures and raise the prices for the corresponding animal parts greatly. Just my suggestions.

And to add some observations as requested ...

Using finest (q290-q300) reinforced battle axes (probably the only reasonable choice of weapon) against a neoten consumer, a good estimate for the minimal axe ranks needed to deal (any) slash damage is about 140 (at agility 200+3, no other buffs).
Maulberlord seems the only mob with a higher physical resistance than neoten consumer.

this was kinda the case with dlayos, if youd cast nature intuition on a dlayo they have around 100 anti-magic, and you cant really do damage unless you are more towards expert in a weapon level
sucsk though since the mob replacment, switched out the dlayos for a bunch of clackers...

[Bonifarzia]

this was kinda the case with dlayos, if youd cast nature intuition on a dlayo they have around 100 anti-magic, and you cant really do damage unless you are more towards expert in a weapon level
sucsk though since the mob replacment, switched out the dlayos for a bunch of clackers...

Did you ever have the feeling that the dlayos antimagic ranks made any difference? However, if you have in mind how GM controlled dlayo reacted to offensive magic, this would of course be an outstanding feature to have for mobs controlled by the NPC client.

To all dlayo hunters out there missing their favorite sparring partners ...  maulbernauts are moving as swiftly and defeated about as easily as the dlayo used to, but do not expect any valuable loot.

[LigH]

I would not yet bet on Antimagic being implemented ... until a developer tells me it was (referring to a specific SVN revision, perhaps).

[Earowo]

this was kinda the case with dlayos, if youd cast nature intuition on a dlayo they have around 100 anti-magic, and you cant really do damage unless you are more towards expert in a weapon level
sucsk though since the mob replacment, switched out the dlayos for a bunch of clackers...

Did you ever have the feeling that the dlayos antimagic ranks made any difference? However, if you have in mind how GM controlled dlayo reacted to offensive magic, this would of course be an outstanding feature to have for mobs controlled by the NPC client.

To all dlayo hunters out there missing their favorite sparring partners ...  maulbernauts are moving as swiftly and defeated about as easily as the dlayo used to, but do not expect any valuable loot.

what? but the mualbers arnt worth it then, i fought long and hard to get hundreds of plain old daggers and mushrooms from those dlayos you know...

[weltall]

antimagic does nothing

[Earowo]

for now.......

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Looks like there were some changes to npcs.

Tell us how you feel about them.

[lilura]

Lilura does a happy dance 'we got the trepor fields back! and the forest spider things are actually in the forest!'

I also like how the new critters have various kind - the baby tree things i can kill easily, the Adult i have to work at it some, and the Elder pwn me    but it gives me a challenge

[Koios]

Lilura does a happy dance 'we got the trepor fields back! and the forest spider things are actually in the forest!'

I also like how the new critters have various kind - the baby tree things i can kill easily, the Adult i have to work at it some, and the Elder pwn me    but it gives me a challenge

*Koios dances with Lilura and awaits the congaline*
I feel now there's a good balance of mobs now. Enough monsters for the newcomers to have fun with, enough monsters for the mid ones and enough for the maxed ones. In general, plenty for everyone!  

[LigH]

Forest ... "spider things"? -- Arangma!

* LigH made the original texture...