Author Topic: Complaint about Lost Dwarven Histories.  (Read 5358 times)

Talad

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2010, 03:02:55 pm »
People who didn't sign the ABC license by purpose to damage the game are just showing their true nature. Also by posting the above you broke the NDA. Both the NDA and copyright assignment have been explained to you in the on boarding meetings and you explicitly accepted that when entering jayose and nexus. People like you are the reason we need a closed license for content.

Under the moon

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2010, 04:48:04 pm »
Those who can not debate the facts of a matter in fear of losing to their opponent often resort to undermining the character of said opponent without offering any facts of their own, thus attempting to render their opponent's facts impotent.

One of us is a liar in this matter. Only one of us can back up the points with actual facts. The other will likely say they are covered under the NDA, so can't be talked about in public, or deny them outright and arbitrarily.

verden

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2010, 04:58:49 pm »
I think the next recruit to the team should probably be a professional public relations person. The problem here is that the perception of the situation is all that counts to the community-at-large. Talad, you need to stop posting on here, tLGT, and MMORPG. Except for announcements. No matter who is wrong or right here, there is a proper way to deal with these sorts of situations and the various postings from you are not the way. I'm sorry to butt in, but it needed to be said.

Talad

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2010, 05:07:49 pm »
The facts are under the sun, and available to everyone. We are providing a free service since 8 years, and we building this game for free, for the passion we have in RPGs. All the rest is just trolling and ranting.

Nowhere I stated that PS will be pay to play after 1.0, in no way I've been "dishonest" like you state, and in no way I said I will sue people who dare to speak badly of PS, and there are no actions on my side that are even close to that, or that can support such a thesis. So you just speak out of vengeance and grief, for something I still have to understand. There are no facts in your claims.

We tried to defend our assets in the best way possible given our resources, for the benefits of the players and of the devs. Surely Microsoft will have a better way to enforce his license, but we are not a large software company, and we have no money to pay for lawyers every day. If someone will explicitly try to damage our work, we will do our best to stop him.

I don't see why you are so angry against me or PS, I did nothing to you. I'm here to build a game, if you don't like the game or us, just move on, there are plenty of games out there.

Talad

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2010, 05:27:56 pm »
I think the next recruit to the team should probably be a professional public relations person. The problem here is that the perception of the situation is all that counts to the community-at-large. Talad, you need to stop posting on here, tLGT, and MMORPG. Except for announcements. No matter who is wrong or right here, there is a proper way to deal with these sorts of situations and the various postings from you are not the way. I'm sorry to butt in, but it needed to be said.

A professional public relation person will probably just delete all inappropriate posts and post standard answers. Also a standard company will just not expose at all the devs to any resource like irc channels, forums or other public media, so that people just have no hooks to start trolling and debates on. That is also probably the best way. I still find nice to speak with players, and give my point of view, but I understand that's sometimes not proper.

The exposure feeds the trolls, that's sure. I'm not sure there is a real solution to this problem.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 05:32:18 pm by Talad »

verden

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2010, 05:51:13 pm »
Well, a PR person would still do what you wanted, insofar as you are the director. I was meaning more to the crafting of responses and policy to handle situations like this. I can appreciate that the situation may be driving you mad, but quickie responses that apportion blame are not in your best interests in this situation. Thanks...

LigH

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2010, 08:53:04 am »
Not everyone with a different opinion is automatically a troll. Except you really believe in "§1 of the Boss". ;)

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Akkaido Kivikar

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2010, 12:21:20 pm »
To be brutally honest I think UtM should try running his own development project. His own level of arrogance will quickly bring the project down. Not once in a conversation that I have witnessed has he ever admitted he is wrong, and he usually resorts to calling his opponent 'noob' or other insults just because their opinion differs to his.

Not painting Talad as an angel, everyone has faults, but really, UtM is just a pot calling a kettle black, and black's not exactly a nice derogatory term to use these days.

Notice how XilliX, someone who was also fired from the PlaneShift devteam, has not come on here and publicised his work and made a big show and cry. I haven't even seen a word by him against Talad here. Bitching about someone all over the other person's community board is just unprofessional and goes to show why I donate art to the people I donate to.

Rigwyn

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2010, 08:59:23 pm »
Quote from the previously referred page: http://www.blendernation.com/planeshift-project-recruiting-blender-artists/

Quote
Luca Pancallo Apr 12th, 2007 at 11:29 am

Hi,
thanks for your comments. Let’s clear out some wrong rumors about the project:

1) All contributors are listed in the credits, and they are not removed. We have a “short” list displayed in the game itself to give evidence of the people that worked most on it, and more recently. There is a “full” list shipped with the game on text file will all names and accomplishments.

Not being familiar with game development and the like, who would know to look for such a file ?
I as a player would never think to *look* for such a thing, and thus would never notice it. From my perspective, the people who worked on the project are those listed in the clearly visible credits section of the website - which I did read out of curiousity.

As for the ABC license and NDA, imposing an NDA on someone without compensation is kind of a one sided deal. It gives you the right to sue, and the other peson the right to BE sued. In the business world NDA's go hand in hand with some form of additional material compensation.





Under the moon

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2010, 05:25:39 am »
Many, many many prospects and even some Associate Devs who put countless hours into editing or creating original content for PS or working on official events are not listed in the credits. Only a fraction of people who worked on PS are listed. 

I am one of the Associate Devs who is not and never was listed.

Now, you might wonder why I think I should be listed in the credits when I pulled all my original work out of the game. Well, I only pulled my original work from the game. My countless hours of editing others' work still remains. The ideas that I contributed that have been built upon by others still remain. The official events that I wrote and ran still remain. The input I gave to several key new areas of the game still remains. Basically, my original work is a minor part of what I did in PS. Most of what I did is still in the game.

To Akkaido/Xoel, I pity you. I fail to see where I "bitched" about Talad all over his board. I had made only one other post in a month, and it was unrelated to PS. I simply responded with the truth when he decided to drag this thread back up (after no one posted in it for almost a month) to question my nature. To respond to an earlier comment by you, no, these stories would not have been ingame by now. They were meant to go in the Vault of Ages in the city of Arden. Last I looked, there was no Arden addition to PS. Your last post was just very poor form all around, full of half-truths, blatant (and wrong) assumptions, and outright lies. But, I have come to expect rabid defending of PS from you without any proof.

Behold my bad behavior in all its glory. http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=12100;sa=showPosts;start=0

Aiwendil

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2010, 05:03:49 pm »
I see...asking for a forum account to be deleted isn't enough here. Seems some unknown forum rules even doesn't allow people to ask for deletion of their account. The only real way to get it deleted is posting something speaking against the all-mighty, red named admins of the forum...No problem, let me try this too. Should have expected this knowing that it took more than half a year and a lot of asking all the time from my side to only get my GM rights removed...but sure, that's nothing important at all. No problem that I could login as GM even after leaving the team and buy as many holy helmets in NPCroom1 as I wanted...and of course also no problem that I was able (if I really had wanted to) to read the posts in the GM board the whole time. I bet nobody had minded if I read what GMs talk in a thread called "Talking with Lhaa and Aiwendil" or something similar. That's how PS works....the only thing that is really fast in PS is the bashing down of people who dare to not glorify the game all the time.

But let me try to stay a bit on topic...okay, I know, trying is already meant to fail as for the original topic of the thread there is not much else left to say than "Good work Utm." So I am a bit sorry about leaving the topic of your stories Utm and reply to some others here.

People who didn't sign the ABC license by purpose to damage the game are just showing their true nature. Also by posting the above you broke the NDA. Both the NDA and copyright assignment have been explained to you in the on boarding meetings and you explicitly accepted that when entering jayose and nexus. People like you are the reason we need a closed license for content.
People who use all means to silence others and then justify their actions because it is for a greater good also do a very good job in showing their true nature. But leaving that aside...I hope you only speak of the developer's part of Jayose...nobody asked me to sign or discussed a NDA with me when I got my GM account in the library. The only reason why I never made some logs of chats with gm team members public is because they asked me not to...and I have to say it was hard at times to not post logs of GMs on their opinions about favoritism when being told off in public by them denying that there is any favoritism at all.

I think the next recruit to the team should probably be a professional public relations person. The problem here is that the perception of the situation is all that counts to the community-at-large. Talad, you need to stop posting on here, tLGT, and MMORPG. Except for announcements. No matter who is wrong or right here, there is a proper way to deal with these sorts of situations and the various postings from you are not the way. I'm sorry to butt in, but it needed to be said.
I must agree there...I always thought Xillix was bad in public relations...but Talad is a plain disaster. But the tLGT posts were funny to read...shows that posting without reading what others said before is not really a very bright idea. 

A professional public relation person will probably just delete all inappropriate posts and post standard answers. Also a standard company will just not expose at all the devs to any resource like irc channels, forums or other public media, so that people just have no hooks to start trolling and debates on. That is also probably the best way. I still find nice to speak with players, and give my point of view, but I understand that's sometimes not proper.

The exposure feeds the trolls, that's sure. I'm not sure there is a real solution to this problem.
Nobody asked for a professional public relation person...just for a person that is actually able to talk with people without having all the hatred shining though all the posts. And for someone who reads what others says before replying. With Xillix gone it seems there aren't many PS staff members left at all who read these forums for example...but I know, it's only the players talking here and what they say isn't important anyway.

To be brutally honest I think UtM should try running his own development project. His own level of arrogance will quickly bring the project down. Not once in a conversation that I have witnessed has he ever admitted he is wrong, and he usually resorts to calling his opponent 'noob' or other insults just because their opinion differs to his.
You speak of arrogance and still support the PS team? Sorry, it's far beyond me how anyone can call others arrogant after seeing the arrogance of the PS team for some time.

Notice how XilliX, someone who was also fired from the PlaneShift devteam, has not come on here and publicised his work and made a big show and cry. I haven't even seen a word by him against Talad here. Bitching about someone all over the other person's community board is just unprofessional and goes to show why I donate art to the people I donate to.
But you have seen a post of Utm ranting with Talad here every months? You know how Xillix will act when she is out of the team for as long as Utm? I also don't get what you mean with "person's community board". You want to tell me Talad is part of the community? When did that happen? For the PS staff to become part of this community they actually had to leave their hidden fortress and talk to the players...and also take the complains of the community serious and not just say "All the rest is just trolling and ranting". But of course my respects for your willingness to still donate anything to PS after seeing the game for some time.

And thanks for the links Lhaa...they were a funny read. The Xillix-Talad talk is well known and no reason to comment it here again (or maybe it is...I didn't often say anything positive about Xillix...was always too busy arguing with him ;) But in those logs Xillix for sure isn't the one whose bad side is shown there). But I like the one asking for 3d modellers:

Quote
As of March 2007, the game main server, laanx.fragnetics.com, has some 358,400 registered user accounts and 100,000+ characters. The game forums have approximately 23,570 registered accounts.
Let's take some more recent numbers: 482846 accounts on skylab on the 8th of may.
The first tech demo of PS was released on the 5th of february in 2002.
That makes up to today 3014 days of being able to play PS.
Taken the account numbers we have an average of 160 accounts registered on each day!
Hard to say what exactly the current average player number in game is...but should more then 20 and less than 80 I think. So no matter how you look at it, most of those accounts can't even have tried the game for a day. It gets even worse if you keep in mind that there are players playing much longer than a day. All that theses numbers says for me is that PS manages to attract people to try the game out but doesn't manage to keep any of those players in game. Most flee after a few minutes again. And yes, I am aware that a lot of those accounts are just mule accounts...but seriously, even if you have 4 accounts for mules you only have to play about 72 hours with your main char to have more time online than the average PS account.

So, I hope this was enough now to get my account deleted...but if not I am sure I can come up with more. And when you are at it...don't forget my Tinvel account. At least this one time it might be easier for all to just delete it and not have me to come up with another nice post for that account also. And last but not least a big thanks to Utm again for posting those histories here.


Tinvel

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2010, 05:06:51 pm »
\o/ it works....so, what about this account now?

weltall

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2010, 09:12:43 pm »
i'd like to point out there is an error no one deleted no one account both you and lhaa have put them for deletion and the forum software followed your own only orders.

neko kyouran

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2010, 03:26:46 am »
lets drop the personal attacks please.  that goes for both sides.

Velh Krome

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Re: Lost Dwarven Histories.
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2010, 04:12:58 am »
Quote
[..] you two beg and plead for your accounts to be deleted, then POST MOAR on other accounts. Defeats the purpose really.
My other account got deleted simply because I tried what Weltall implied, and surprisingly it worked.

I suppose with your words, Akkaido, the "Lost Dwarven Histories" are ultimately lost?

EDIT: Just to clear things up: Aiw is not me! At least this one made me laugh!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 04:15:08 am by Velh Krome »