Discussion about removing PP from PlaneShift

[Rigwyn]

The character's starting stats should be taken into consideration.
A character with poorly chosen starting stats and a physically weak race will be at a great disadvantage as opposed to a character with well optimized stats.
The "Quick" option for selecting stats is very useful for making a character with sane stats.

[Shoraal]

meet me IG, Vakacheck, and remember, yozr "fast tria" must fit Char concept - so better not involve any skills not fitting character (in this case, crafting etc...)

obviously, char concepts cause different kinds of building "trouble"...

[Vakachehk]

meet me IG, Vakacheck, and remember, yozr "fast tria" must fit Char concept - so better not involve any skills not fitting character (in this case, crafting etc...)

Hehe I did say one way.

[kaerli2]

@ Rigwyn etal: 100 is NOT the final max for sword.  Also, can't you say the same about Jacula and his axes? (he IS a 150 in Axe...) xD

[Rigwyn]

@kaerli, weapon and magic stats can in theory go much higher than that.
To prevent godmodding many of us role players "play our stats"
To say that your character has stats which are not yet attainable is godmodding.

Godmodding is when you do things to make your character more powerful than it should be.
Lying about your stats ( in this case claiming to be entitled to stats that are currently
out of reach ),
Making up nonsense excuses for impossible feats,
Forcing actions on another character,
And being invulnerable are all forms of godmodding.

I've heard that stats can go up to 1,000.
What if Rigwyn claimed to have 1,000 in everything? ( And perhaps he comes up with a reason too)
That would be kinda stupid right ?
People would roll their eyes at me and walk away like "yeah, whatever"
That's a gross exaggeration but the reason is the same - its godmodding.

[bloodedIrishman]

I don't roleplay fight much anymore, but when I did I generally tried to, as Rigwyn stated, "play my stats". I agree with that. Oh and Stats & Skills can go way over 1000.


In fact, they can go.....OVER 9000!!!




Had to do it.   

[kaerli2]

@kaerli, weapon and magic stats can in theory go much higher than that.
To prevent godmodding many of us role players "play our stats"
To say that your character has stats which are not yet attainable is godmodding.

Godmodding is when you do things to make your character more powerful than it should be.
Lying about your stats ( in this case claiming to be entitled to stats that are currently
out of reach ),
Making up nonsense excuses for impossible feats,
Forcing actions on another character,
And being invulnerable are all forms of godmodding.

I've heard that stats can go up to 1,000.
What if Rigwyn claimed to have 1,000 in everything? ( And perhaps he comes up with a reason too)
That would be kinda stupid right ?
People would roll their eyes at me and walk away like "yeah, whatever"
That's a gross exaggeration but the reason is the same - its godmodding.

Like I said, that 150-175 is a final number I play her fairly close to the 100 the game puts her at, then again, why does sword max at 100 but axe at 150?

[Geoni]

Alrighty...

a) not all characters are the type to do any crafting, so why would they? so pp from crafting goes away.
b) you no PP at all for training in armor, but it costs a ton. repairing doesn't cover it. no pp with armor training.
c) Training your empathy costs a good bit of PP, and again you don't get PP for training in it.
d) The pp for training weapons is just enough to level up in that one weapon category. This is just in my experience.
e) You don't really get pp for using crystal way spells, since most of them are healing/defensive. The only way you could get pp for that is to do the missile type attacks.
f) Personal example: Geoni has gotten to the age where kra doesn't want to fight and train anymore, but kra still wants to learn crystal way through healing not attacking, and gain empathy with kra's pets. I can't level these things without PP, which means if I want to level up in something like crystal way, I'll have to attack monsters with magic spells, which would be somewhat OOC for Geoni. I would love to get into higher levels of magic so that I can cast new spells, but sadly it can't happen with this system.
g) you get 1pp for most ores/crystals you successfully dig. It doesn't cover it.

I'm sure some of the letters above will have various exceptions, magic and weapons for example. I can also RP the stuff like being closely bonded with a pet, but I think it all depends on who your character is for how much pp you get, (unless your some powerleveler whom sits in front of a computer all day clicking clicking clicking) that's why i don't duel, I role-play fighting/defending, and most other things. ---so I'll have to struggle through this optimistically. 

[Sarras Volcae]

need to point this out since no one else has yet

the biggest reason pp makes no sense is because you can milk all your pp from fighting mobs and then spend it on cooking

silly, right? lol

can't see how pp is logical. i'm not sure y the devs chose this system. maybe they were trying to be creative? had they ever thought "maybe theres a reason mmos use the same levelling system"? it's because it works. no need to change it.

[Earowo]

@ Rigwyn etal: 100 is NOT the final max for sword.  Also, can't you say the same about Jacula and his axes? (he IS a 150 in Axe...) xD

if you knew anything youd know 100 IS INDEED the max for sword available to ANY player, for a gm the can set any stat or skill the want from 0 to i think iether 2000 or 5000 i dont remember which
but to players, 100 is max for sword
and axes go 150 becuase they are cooler
and they are specifically meant for bloody smashy fights

[jaculapundactum]

@ Rigwyn etal: 100 is NOT the final max for sword.  Also, can't you say the same about Jacula and his axes? (he IS a 150 in Axe...) xD

Off topic:

I don't see why Jacula should be involved in this, but I guess that I should answer to the critique.

My character has a powerful foundation which has been accumulated over the long time that I have played. I have never made a secret of that, since it can be read in my OOC description.

I don't think that it entitles me to outmatch every character Jacula comes across. Staying true to your character is one thing, being a bully is another. After all, I try to be considerate of both my own and others entertainment.

Kaerli:
Given from what I've seen of your character in game one could think that it had level 200 in each weapon and way. I cannot imagine RP fighting a character slinging three different spells in one attack as well as being masterful in every aspect of combat to be enjoyable.

Keep in mind that this is not a personal attack, Kaerli's alleged skills just sprung to mind as I read this.

[kaerli2]

@ Rigwyn etal: 100 is NOT the final max for sword.  Also, can't you say the same about Jacula and his axes? (he IS a 150 in Axe...) xD

Off topic:

I don't see why Jacula should be involved in this, but I guess that I should answer to the critique.

My character has a powerful foundation which has been accumulated over the long time that I have played. I have never made a secret of that, since it can be read in my OOC description.

I don't think that it entitles me to outmatch every character Jacula comes across. Staying true to your character is one thing, being a bully is another. After all, I try to be considerate of both my own and others entertainment.

Kaerli:
Given from what I've seen of your character in game one could think that it had level 200 in each weapon and way. I cannot imagine RP fighting a character slinging three different spells in one attack as well as being masterful in every aspect of combat to be enjoyable.

Keep in mind that this is not a personal attack, Kaerli's alleged skills just sprung to mind as I read this.

I was simply using you as the first example that sprung to mind.  The real underlying issue is the "skill gap" between swords and axes.  Earowo is correct in that axes should do more damage; HOWEVER, why not implement the game so that this is handled through the weapon damage stats, NOT by creating an artificial "skill gap"?

Also, Kaerli isn't THAT good with spells...xD

[Bonifarzia]

I do agree there are issues, but those won't be easily resolved by just removing PPs completely. also replacing the PP system with something very complex won't make things better, they'd just get worst I think. so to sum it up: it works as it is now, why make a very big change that is very likely to cause many new issues while there are still some more important things to be tackled atm?

Above is maybe the best summary for this topic.

Some players are having a hard time gaining PP at the beginning, some of the experienced players will never be able to spend the masses of PP they accumulated. (Maybe just because for most of the more entertaining game aspects, you end up with much more PP than tria.) But none of that seems to be a serious problem.

I would like to add another idea here, which has probably been discussed in the one or other way before...
What about providing some other way to spend your PP? I would love to see a game feature where players can act in the same way as NPC trainers. For instance, the trainee would pay a little (PP and tria) extra for the lesson, as there is no need to search for the right NPC, and the teacher would also spend a certain amount of PP while receiving the tria. And of course, the difference in ranks of the trained skill would have to be in a well defined interval. This would allow a mechanism of of training that does not destroy overall tria, put excressent PP - without much potential of abuse, I assume.

[Vakachehk]

I do agree there are issues, but those won't be easily resolved by just removing PPs completely. also replacing the PP system with something very complex won't make things better, they'd just get worst I think. so to sum it up: it works as it is now, why make a very big change that is very likely to cause many new issues while there are still some more important things to be tackled atm?

Above is maybe the best summary for this topic.

Some players are having a hard time gaining PP at the beginning, some of the experienced players will never be able to spend the masses of PP they accumulated. (Maybe just because for most of the more entertaining game aspects, you end up with much more PP than tria.) But none of that seems to be a serious problem.

I would like to add another idea here, which has probably been discussed in the one or other way before...
What about providing some other way to spend your PP? I would love to see a game feature where players can act in the same way as NPC trainers. For instance, the trainee would pay a little (PP and tria) extra for the lesson, as there is no need to search for the right NPC, and the teacher would also spend a certain amount of PP while receiving the tria. And of course, the difference in ranks of the trained skill would have to be in a well defined interval. This would allow a mechanism of of training that does not destroy overall tria, put excressent PP - without much potential of abuse, I assume.

well to that person that did that summary. Again taking PP out to have a look at how it will work is a smart thing to do. you can, at any time put it back in. This game is still under testing, and this is our only option to see weather or weather not it will work. Later on it will be too late.

WOW very confusing Bonifarzia! I have a merchant alt who can barley stand up. he's a merchant, how do I get PP from that? now you have came up with a great solution!

I do believe that having no PP would seem... nakid almost only having to get tria and train and then Practice Points. So I do not know, something needs to be done. And again I would not of started this thread if PP was easier to get! I think for noobs only, it is at a hard level and this is what is killing the player community we NEED noobs. Thy do not grow on trees, they are not easy to find. My guild is almost dead at this moment, and I am very much blaming this!

[jorrit]

well to that person that did that summary. Again taking PP out to have a look at how it will work is a smart thing to do. you can, at any time put it back in. This game is still under testing, and this is our only option to see weather or weather not it will work. Later on it will be too late.

WOW very confusing Bonifarzia! I have a merchant alt who can barley stand up. he's a merchant, how do I get PP from that? now you have came up with a great solution!

I do believe that having no PP would seem... nakid almost only having to get tria and train and then Practice Points. So I do not know, something needs to be done. And again I would not of started this thread if PP was easier to get! I think for noobs only, it is at a hard level and this is what is killing the player community we NEED noobs. Thy do not grow on trees, they are not easy to find. My guild is almost dead at this moment, and I am very much blaming this!

My two oldest children (age 10 and 11) recently started playing PlaneShift. They had no problems at all getting PP's from scratch. They are doing very well and my son is now making his own shields and my daughter loves to cook. Most PP's they collected was through mining and then melting ores as that is a very quick way to get PP's in large amounts.

It really is very easy for a noob to get started in PS. I know,  my two children did it both.

Greetings,